Announcement: House Governments

[Kherty]

Got it, thank you

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[Champ]

I don't think this is a good idea. It's going to increase staff workload and decrease gov throughput, as well as cut out 2iCs and increase dependence on 1iCs who probably are at the upper limit of effort dedicated to the game of non-staff players.

Discretionary staff intervention when deemed necessary or investigation when requested by players makes more sense. Not sure what prompted/justified the change.

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[SnakThree]

I don't think this is a good idea. It's going to increase staff workload and decrease gov throughput, as well as cut out 2iCs and increase dependence on 1iCs who probably are at the upper limit of effort dedicated to the game of non-staff players.

Discretionary staff intervention when deemed necessary or investigation when requested by players makes more sense. Not sure what prompted/justified the change.

I would assume people who got shafted by governments due to their actions such as Auxesia, Junker Congress, OSI-

Fantastic change that is long time coming.

lets fucking gooooooooooooooooooooo

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[Karst]

Regarding workload: The most prolific house government account, the Empire of Kusari, has averaged around 2 posts a week over the last three months. Honestly, that seems manageable to me, especially since most posts are mundane bureaucracy that we won't have to look at too closely before approving. The intention here is not to insert ourselves unnecessarily into every minor decision, but just to follow the processes along. If, for example, someone who is friendly to a house requests a POB license at a reasonable location, but the house does not want to grant it because they don't like the player, that is the type of thing we'd want to prevent.
In general, I would hope that we would hardly ever have to question the governments' decisions.

Regarding unlawful participation: Aside from the obvious "unlawfuls don't care about laws" part, the reason why they aren't included is due to ID rules: House Corporations, Police, Military, and Intelligence factions have ID lines against "considered hostile by [house]", and of course the latter three also have "enforce laws" lines.
So they are directly affected by House decisions in a way unlawful IDs are not.
Players of those factions can still talk to each other about house stuff, and I imagine most if not all governments or house player groups will probably continue working "in the background" on their own terms, possibly with unlawful participation. It just wouldn't make much sense to grant them voting rights on matters that don't directly affect them.

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[SnakThree]

Regarding workload: The most prolific house government account, the Empire of Kusari, has averaged around 2 posts a week over the last three months. Honestly, that seems manageable to me, especially since most posts are mundane bureaucracy that we won't have to look at too closely before approving. The intention here is not to insert ourselves unnecessarily into every minor decision, but just to follow the processes along. If, for example, someone who is friendly to a house requests a POB license at a reasonable location, but the house does not want to grant it because they don't like the player, that is the type of thing we'd want to prevent.
In general, I would hope that we would hardly ever have to question the governments' decisions.

If you hope that you would hardly need to question decisions, then why the heck are you inserting yourself into this whole matter. If you see bad decision that smells bad, investigate it.

Staff members are getting rewards in Disco events they supervise. You think governments are doing something bad? Look at yourselves first, lol.

And the fact that it will be now required to be under staff's supervision, don't you think that will limit the honesty of LIMITED NUMBER of players with their reasoning in voting? Being afraid to say the wrong thing while staff can hear and relay it to their buddies in affected factions? Or you know, plain and simple bias, when staff members are also members of certain factions.

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[Erremnart]

Interesting. But i have a Question? I am leader of OS&C thats a Inter House faction wit Dealings in all Houses. How are Interhoudr Factions like Mine Treated in this Stuff? Because as it is right Now we are Not Represented anywhere.

I ask because for Example Cortez (Orbitals Main System) is a Joint Protectorate of both Liberty and Bretonia. Does that mean we are Part of both LibGov and BretGov?

To be fair your faction is part of the "Independent Worlds", not explicitly House Space.

There's no similar advantage for officialdom for Unlawfuls (obviously), but maybe something beneficial for them will be coming in the future.

Well by this logic we can simply declare Cortez as Orbital Property and create our own Goverment. Plus there is also the Case of Baden Baden. This would make us Part of the Official Factions of Rheinland at least.

You see the situation isn't that simple and thats why I ask for CLARIFICATION From the STAFF.

The Orbital Spa & Cruise is not directly affiliated with any of the Houses despite its origins in Liberty, thus they aren't involved in any in-House government. They are an independent corporation.

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Feedback Thread

[Antonio]

If you hope that you would hardly need to question decisions, then why the heck are you inserting yourself into this whole matter. If you see bad decision that smells bad, investigate it.

Staff members are getting rewards in Disco events they supervise. You think governments are doing something bad? Look at yourselves first, lol.

I was waiting for this one honestly, because knowing the community it was 100% coming. You gave me a good chuckle at least, thank you. I didn't supervise a thing, the event was organized by several staff members and I was merely the poster given that we were postponing it unnecessarily. I participated in literally every single event I ever contributed in organizing, this one being no different, and played the game instead of crying and moaning on the forums about every small change like a 5 year old who lost his toy. Especially when this finally can be a reason for factions to push for officialdom, something the community desperately wanted.

As Lucas said:

people always complain about not having a reason to be official, now they complain about having to be official. Only in Discovery man

Only in Discovery.

Edit: One thing for people who are concerned about staff bureaucracy (having to wait months for a POB license approval): the staff have been recruiting more mods recently. Perhaps one of the reasons (I genuinely don't know) was to change the way they vote on player/government requests and speed things up by delegating mod work between themselves. It's understandable people don't trust the staff especially given Discovery's history, but I honestly think this can be beneficial to everyone if executed properly. Time will tell.

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[SnakThree]

I would play the game if Ageira had decent trade routes. But devs ruined it few years ago. And deleted most of them recently. So yeah, I am providing feedback when the thing I enjoyed doing in Discovery is being ruined. At least some of us can take negative feedback.

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[Spectre]

Putting this up front: I've only really read snippets of the responses here, at least enough to get a general understanding of where the community as a whole seems to stand on this change. I also don't have much experience with House Govs, with the majority of it coming from interactions with people who are part of Govs themselves.

If we're going by the direct wording here,
Liberty will have four representatives,
Rheinland and Bretonia will have three,
Kusari will have two,
and Gallia will be left with a sole rep to vote on laws.

Quite frankly, I don't really see this working all that well, no matter how 'regulated by staff' it is. There just aren't enough bodies voicing opinions, and in the case of Gallia there literally isn't any discussion whatsoever.
This also essentially means that it won't truly be the govs voting on approval or disapproval, but the staff, since they can veto any post made with House forum accounts. Sure, maybe this won't happen in practice, but it can happen, and that really doesn't sit well with me.

Expand it to the 1ic and 2ic of each faction involved, and maybe even expand it to factions that can enforce the house's laws without being lawful. This gives the UC/- some voice in matters that effect them, since they literally own an entire Gallic system, and even gives a Hogosha faction some voice in Kusari if someone finds the interest in making that grind to officialdom.

Otherwise, I really don't see this as being anything other than being doomed to failure from the get-go.

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[SnakThree]

Staff should regulate Zonera and GMG too. And actually any faction who put up laws in that thread then. Seems fair treatment then And yes, regulate when unlawfuls can shoot at POBs. Basically, regulate everything that has roleplay and gameplay ramifications to players within system where factions have ZOI.

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