I never stated you had an agenda. I was pointing out, with the Mormon polygamy/animal control example, that the duties and functions of a civilian government are nearly all A. Outside the scope of the game B. Part of rarely-populated types of RP.
What functions, other than oversight, would the civilian government really perform? War with Rheinland hasn't come yet.
That my friend is call a "Political Agenda" to lobby for political action geared toward one special interest groups, such as....Mormon polygamist.
A civilian government can deal with more important issues other that "WAR" and with welfare policies, taxes, appointing leadership, and a controlling the Liberty Federal Reserve(Not created yet). Which the Government will decide where the money should be spent.
Also putting pressure on the LPI to enforce the laws. The government also put pressure on the Navy to keep out of CIVIL ISSUES!
I'll try to link each major government to a time and place in history or just try to explain the basic idea behind it.
Liberty: Post-World War I USA Republic Government (1920s)
Bretonia: British Parliamentary Government (maybe the 1800s?)
Kusari: Feudal Japan (800s-1400s)
Rheinland: World War II German Fascist Government (1930s-1945 I think)
Corsairs: Council of Elders (Contains 4 elders who decide what is best for Planet Crete. Can't find a place and time to link this to...)
Outcasts: Renaissance Italy (1500s-1600s. Families ruling Italian city-states, or in this case, Maltese cardamine farms. There's competition, but the one who rules the biggest farm controls all of Planet Malta)
If you can understand these governments work, you'll know how the governments in Freelancer work.
Carlos Rivera: Corsair Brotherhood Pirate - Retired, shifted to Tripoli Shipyard's Research and Development engineering teams Anthony Cameron: Guild Core Bounty Hunter - Killed in Action, committed suicide after being trapped in Omicron Minor following its destruction Juan Ruiz: Outcast Ghost of Razgriz Pirate - Killed in Action, killed by the Sirius Coalition Revolutionary Army during Bretonian piracy raid Michael Winchester: Liberty Security Force Agent - Missing in Action, likely killed during Rheinland espionage mission or trapped in Rheinland Space Eric McCormick: Order Pilot - Retired, shifted to planetside training of new recruits
At the moment there is no RPd Liberty government that makes and passes laws or has any over site or say in the behavior of the LN, LSF, or LPI. At the moment the LN, LSF, and LPI RP the Liberty government.
However, if folks would like to work on the idea of a Liberty government here is how I feel it might look like.
To me Liberty is based on the United States of America. It would be a representative-democratic-republic.
It is composed of 3 branches. The legislative, executive, and judicial.
The legislative branch does pretty much most of everything as far as declaring new laws, removing old laws, and budgets. The judicial branchs major responsibility is to determine the constitutionality of any laws or decisions by the legislative and executive branch. The executive branch is lead by the President, Vice President, and their cabinets. Their major role is to formulate diplomacy and work towards presenting and passing their objectives during their term. Both the executive and legislative branches may override each other to stop something. While the judicial branch may stop and proclaim any action by either of the other branches as unconstitutional and so null and void.
Liberty would also have a system government based on USA state governments. As well as planetary government base on the USA local governments. Liberty would have a budget. Each system would have a budget. Each planet would have a budget. Who controls what would always be contested. House Corporations would be heavy into political control if not having total control of some planets and even systems. Who pays for Stations? Jump Gates? Who do they pay taxes to and how much? Are Laws in Texas the same as Laws in NY? Does Denver control everything in Colorado? Does the Governor want that or does he want control of stations? Who do mining fields belong to, planets, systems, federal government?
New York System
1 Governor of New York
Manhattan. Highest Population. 220 million
50 Senators 400 Representitives
1 Mayor of Manhattan
Pittsburg. Low Population.
10 Senators 100 Representitives
1 Mayor of Manhattan
California System
1 Governor of California
California Minor. Low Population. Terraforming.
10 Senators 50 Representitives
1 Mayor of California Minor
Los Angeles. Low Population. Terraforming.
10 Senators 50 Representitives
1 Mayor of Los Angeles
Colorado System
1 Governor of Colorado
Denver. High Population.
10 Senators 200 Representitives
1 Mayor of Denver
Texas System
1 Governor of Texas
Houston. Low population. Desert World.
10 Senators 80 Representitives.
1 Mayor of Houston
The Liberty Supreme Court consists of 20 Justices.
Were talking about an interstellar government here. Enjoy.
Rick that's all nice and stuff but where are you going to get hundreds of people to RP as senators and stuff? Even filling the 10 Mayor/Governor slots would be tough IMO.
I'd say drop the supreme court down to 3-5.
If this works out I'll serve as a justice on the supreme court. and as a governor if there is an extra space for one.
I think this idea is being taken too far. I don't think we have enough
people who are interested in playing Liberty government.
The reason LSF and LN is "in control" is because they are the military
factions of "Liberty". There is no ingame Liberty civilians - other than LPI -
and other than what you make them like reporters or protestors business
owners/traders etc.... If anything I think the LPI should have a co-equal
say on the laws and things passed - seeing as they ARE a civilian faction.
If you have a problem with the laws - like the cost of Liberty fines - then I
suggest you bring it up on the forums. If you have a problem with the
way either faction is run put it in their feedback. If that is ignored (after
say a month or two) THEN do something about it and garner support on
the forums - using peer pressure to change things..
In that sense we can all bring up issues that we have for ANY house and
discuss until we come to a resolution. I think you are putting on your own
idea of democracy onto Liberty. It is named after the Idea, but it is far
from being the America you live in today.
The Military/Navy/LPI should have the power because effectively, they
are the players that play in Liberty. The fines are expensive for low levels,
but they are suitable for most traders.
What is your actual issue? Because from where I'm sitting the situation
looks fine - seeing as how this is a PVP game with the responsibility of the
RP server, with not much ability to RP ingame beyond a certain point. And
Again that brings this to my point about the forums being the medium
where we can RP more effectively.
This is from a person who played a Liberty Junker, A Liberty civilian
reporter interested in free speech, and a Liberty Pirate. I have played people
who the laws and government could "Repress" quite easily. And I
still don't see a problem with the current setup of LN and LSF RPing the
Government. Most of their laws and such have been reasonable.
Sovereign Wrote:Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.
' Wrote:Rick that's all nice and stuff but where are you going to get hundreds of people to RP as senators and stuff? Even filling the 10 Mayor/Governor slots would be tough IMO.
I'd say drop the supreme court down to 3-5.
If this works out I'll serve as a justice on the supreme court. and as a governor if there is an extra space for one.
I felt before folks started trying to organize Liberty government RP we should have some idea how the actual government would look. My previous post was how the actual Liberty Government may be set up. It was not meant to be how the RP government should be set up.
The whole issue with government is the many layers involved. Federal, System, and Planetary. For instance on a planet there would be local planetary laws which would be much different on say Manhattan then Pittsburg. There would be system laws. New York would be different then Colorado which would be different then Texas. There would then be federal laws.
For rp purposes I suggest getting rid of all the representative slots and just representing the representatives by the Senators. 1 senator for each system. 1 Governor for each system. 1 Mayor for each planet. President. Vice President. 5 Justices on the Court.
Even then that is far too many positions. At the same time having to few positions puts the government in a state were it would be to easy for one group of friends to control everything.
In addition, allowing anyone to hold more than one position would an extremely poor idea. Particularly 2 or more positions in separate parts of the government. Even holding more than one position in any singular part of the government is an extremely poor idea. The government is set up to keep each part under checks and balances. If youre a senator trying to pass a law and are also a Justice or another member of congress you would have a ridicules amount of power to use to get your law passed.
This to me is why there is no Liberty Government or any House government. The government is represented by the official player factions of that house. Why? Because it is just too complicated and would require way too many people to be effective.
If we reduce the Liberty Government to bare bones. Make federal law absolute for Planets and Systems. Reduce it to 4 Senators for each system, a President, and say a 3 person Supreme Courtit might work. Stillthat is 8 people. What 8 players should have control of Liberty? The thread seamed to have started because Zigeris did not approve that the LN/LSF/LPI control the Liberty House. So should the 8 players compromising the Liberty government be independents and not of an official Liberty player faction? Should the government be compromised of people from any other faction? Who gets the control?
I personally feel the Liberty government is fine the way it is. It is composed of 3 separate branches. The LN, the LSF, and the LPI. All three groups are lead by different people with different goals. We do not always work together well and we are not supposed to always be happy with one another. It works because we are not a single organization that actively works 24/7 for the same things. We all have our own agendas and we all have occasional conflict about it. The LN and LSF keep the LPI in check. The LN and LPI keep the LSF in check. The LPI and LSF keep the LN in check. It really does work out well. The LPI has some authority that the LN and LSF do not have. The LN has some authority the LSF and LPI do not have. The LSF has some authority the LN and LPI do not have.
The best advice I can give if people actually want to have an impact on Liberty governance and laws is to get a group of people together, some of you join the LPI, some of you join the LN, and some of you join the LSF. Follow all the factions rules and rp yourself well while at the same time working with your friends in the other 2 factions. If you all do this well in time your small group spread in the 3 official liberty factions should acquire a good measure of power within Liberty.
This is in essence the greatest thing missing in much of discovery. People in a well organized group that work together to attain a logical, unattainable, realistic, goal.
Everyone wants change to happen in discovery. Everyone wants some measure of respect in discovery. Everyone wants their own slice of discovery to have some measure of power over. Very few however seem willing to actually put the hard work into it that is needed.
Mostly I have been attempting to debate the assertion that the LN/LSF/LPI should not be the government of Liberty because that is not how it is in real life. Well youre absolutely right that is not how it would be in RL. The government would be compromised of civilians and those with military and police powers would be kept in check by the civilian government. However, the only alternatives I see are even more not how it would be in real life. How many people could we actually get to rp the Liberty Civilian government on a consistent basis? 10? I think that is rather a high number. Unless you allow those in the 3 official Liberty government factions to be a part of it. However, that would kind of negate the purpose of the civilian government. Even if we could find 10 players not involved in the LN/LSF/LPI as well as not involved in any faction or group that is less than neutral to Liberty, which is most likely impossible, 10 players is not a government. 10 players would be much less of a government then the few dozen players involved in the LSF/LN/LPI. It would wind up being even more unrealistic then the current system in place.
Don't forget, there are many things that go on behind the scenes in Real life
democracy that most civilians DO NOT know about.
The real life military hide things all the time. The real life
Government layers political speech to ambiguralise and confuzzle
Joe Blogs, so that he just says "yes. ok whatever."
Real life democracy is a farce. There's always a select group in control.
Sovereign Wrote:Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.
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