How to make Discovery better?

[Exsiled_one]

Bah, look. Do what you want. Lone wolfs will always be there. Douches like me as well.

If you do in fact think that some of your ideas are being bounced back because you're not "elite enough" why doesn't someone actually grab that "coding 101" book and help Cannon out.
I sure as hell don't want to code or have time to.
As for other things Megiddo pointed as flaws, I'ld like you to name few of dictating things that this community has done "for sake of rp"

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<span style="color:#33CC00">I AM GIVING AWAY MONEY TO CREATIVE MINDS*</span>

[tansytansey]

Delete flood. And yeah let's be nice to each other, it never hurts to say that once more.

Deleting flood will only make those topics migrate to General. The difference? +1.

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http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv46/Ni...gcloudscopy.png
Image turned into a URL because it made your sig too tall. -Zuke
|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes &quot;Nighthawk&quot; Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Seth Karlo]

Good post Megiddo.

I personally think that the main problem with Discovery is peoples attitude, which in turn boils down to respect. Do you have the respect for that lone person to perhaps not gank him? Do you have the respect to acknowledge a persons views without shooting him down for it? Do you have the respect to read the server rules before playing on said server?

Sometimes people (including myself) need to think about the consequences of what they do.

As for elitism, yes, it happens. Id like to think in a perfect world it wouldn't, and I don't think my views are any more (or less) important than anyone elses. A good way to see the difference in how people think about you is to make a new forum account and see how people treat you. It's an enlightening experience.

"Treat none as your superior, nor let any be your slave. Treat all those you meet with equality, respect and love, no matter their appearence, beliefs or personality. Allow people the chance to break your trust, instead of forcing them to earn it."

-Me, 2 years ago when asked to talk about my beliefs.

While I'm loath to try and be any more egotistical than I already am, I'd like to think there is some wisdom in those words.

-Seth

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Signature by Sleipnir.

[pipboy]

Well, ask them to report the player in question. Or ask them to send you SS and make a reputation change request or a capital ship removal request.

The example is moot since factions can dictate who can and cannot participate in events.

Nooblet there is a problem with your reasoning here. Have you ever tried to organize an official event? If not I'll tell you, it's a pain in the ass. You have a couple dozen people you have organize and coordinate with and make sure everyone is there (which they never are), and then there is the hour of skype calls and pm's calling in the people that forgot or are late. Then when your event finally gets started and random indies start showing up and ruining it, it's FAR too late to do something about it.

By that point the event is already ruined, hours of work and days or even weeks of waiting ruined. Sure you can report them and they get a slap on the wrist. Big deal. It's kicking an already dead horse.

Say what you want about official factions already having enough power, that's nonsense. Right now any official faction in game is outnumbered at least 3 to 1 by indies in game at any given moment. Some will cooperate with RP, most will not. Usually the indies that do cooperate are ones that are also in official factions, like yourself, or me, or others that have been around a while and have both idies and official faction characters.

As leader of the Black Dragon Society I will use my faction as an example here. What exactly can you do as a Hogosha indie that you aren't allowed to do as a Black Dragon? Where are the benefits to being an indie? Cause I sure can't see them. The Black Dragons are a pretty laid back faction, we have very few RP restrictions on anything our players can and can't do. The restrictions we have are nothing more than the ones an indie would have due to RP. Secondly, all those indies usually provide nothing except chaos. They can't be called on easily for help when Kusari is under attack, when you do manage to call them in most of them don't listen to orders in battle which is needed for any hope of success. As indies they have no easy method of asking RP questions when they come up against a situation that they don't know how to handle so mistakes get made and they end up getting sanctions for things that could easily be avoided. All this and many more are reasons for why they should join the official faction.

To be quite blunt, I would like to know why official faction players want more control of independent players. Are you insecure? Or is it just jealousy that they can trade for the credits and you cannot?

Call it what you like nooblet, call me a person that has no power in real life so I need this to get my rocks off ordering people around in game. Call me insecure, call me a child... All the typical responses to official factions wanting more "power". Frankly I get tired of the old indie/faction debate. Every time this kind of issue is raised for factions, you and a select few other players go on a rampage to prevent it. Why? I don't know. Seems to me that I'm not the one with authority issues here.

I have nothing against indies in particular. I have a lot of indie characters myself. And sure there is an appeal to it, you have no boss, no one to give you orders, no one to answer to. You go where you want and do what you want and only have to answer to yourself and the admins. However, indies to lack one huge issue. A sense of community. They usually don't hang out with friends and work together to accomplish goals. There is no pride in promoting the goals and deeds of "[insert tag here]". Most indies fly around alone or with one other person and do what they will. Sure there is a place for that. But the factions need more love too.

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[barrenwzste]

Final Post on This Matter: This is aimed at Independants Primarily, because they are by thier own admission primariy the problem. However, there are some decent Independants, and from the begaining I have aknowledged that. There are also bad faction members, and from the begaining I have admitted that. These admissions do not change the fact that the majority of Independants are lolwutters and the majority of faction members are anything but.

1: Respect is earned, not given. Want me to respect you as a player and a person, show me you are worth it. Untill then all you are entitled to is the courteousies given to all human beings.

2: Don't want to be force into a role? Go play a different server then, this is a ROLE playing server. It is the core rule of this server.

3: Factions and thier members do more for the storyline and role playing community than Independants.

4: Nintey percent of Independants quote lack of will to follow rules, put effort into the role, and game mechanics restrictions as thier reasons for being Independant. (I can start going through the back posts and quoting all of you to prove it, if you like)

5: The only checks and balances placed on Independants are the basic server rules and those placed by themselves. Yes, they can be sreenshotted and reported, but everybody, factions included, can be screenshotted. The fact is, the Admins themselves admit they can't police the entirety of the game and part of Cannon's post was a a question as to how to help the Factions control the players and roleplay. And I Quote,

The admin team want official factions to: A) Make 'role-play and rules challenged' players better.[quote] That means giving the factions more power over players.

6: Cannon was also asking for ways to coerce the Independant players into factions.

C) Provide a flexible platform for group fun and individual fun to encourage participation by all. There are multiple aspects to this: demonstrating that fair play works, dragging indes into the factions...[quote]

7: And finally, Cannon's post was to ask for rewards for the effort of the factions and faction members. Unlike the Independants, who are unwilling (Thier own words, I can go get quotes) to put the effort into making Discovery a deep and diverse role playing environment, the factions and faction memebers are constantly striving to do this very thing. Extra effort deserves rewards, and for the factions and thier members to recieve a reward, they must perforce, recieve some things the Independants do not.

Suck it up Independants, you have stated you are unwilling to put forth the effort to role play and follow the rules. You cannot cry then, when the other players who will do these things get better toys. What can we do to make Discovery better? We can follow the rules and ROLE PLAY. If you can't be bothered to do that, go to one of the Non-Rp servers, stop ruining ours.

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&quot;Two things I know; Gravity sucks and Ion Storms blow. And that proves the universe is trying to kill us all&quot; - Barren Waste, Captain of the Wasteland Wanderer

An approximation of my reaction when I see my next victim...er, these forums.

[Cannon]

Clarifying my thoughts a little:

[quote]The admin team want official factions to: A) Make 'role-play and rules challenged' players better.[quote]
I wasn't looking to achieve this by giving power to official factions over other players. I was looking for ideas to achieve this by making factions (even more) fun. That's why my post was titled "How to make factions better?" not "How to make faction more powerful over independant players".

Encourage players to join, do not coerce them to do so. Admittedly the line between encourage and coerce is a blurry one but if any one ever says "You must join this faction or we will hunt you down" they and their faction will be in trouble. Coerce to me, means force indes to join factions. This will never happen.

I note that running a successful official faction is hard work - much harder than looking after only yourself. It seems to me that for most factions there are more advantages to not being official at the moment.

I think a lot of people here are quite selfish. They are only interested in themselves rather than the whole community or their interest in the community extends only as far as it affects them.

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Proud member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"

Old Avatar #2 | Old Avatar #3

[Lance_Uppercut]

I think independents vs. factioneers aside, much of the issue is about factions being too powerful/elitist, which may have its own merits and enough people already touched on.

Rather than making factions more powerful, it might be a good idea to make them more specialized, or at least more accessible.
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By this I mean, trading factions (Universal, Republican, etc.) could receive a bonus on buy/sell prices at some small rate (perhaps 5% over non-fac-ID'd traders), while weaponry comes at a 5% tax.

In the same boat could be House Navies, which could receive 10% discounts on the big purchases (cap ships/high tech guns) from their own house shops. (I'd balk at giving them a tax right now since the balance is still off, but it could be on things like ammunition.)

And pirates could be given a 5% discount on equipment purchases with valid ID at their bases (since, I mean, who thinks pirates are going to pay full price for a standard gun available on Manhattan?), but a 5% tax on buying new ships.

And this could be applied to specific player factions, too... if you want to strengthen the 'official' ones. (Ie: Universal ID gets 5% price bonus, *USI* gets 7%; Navy gets 10% off Class 9+ guns, [LN] gets 15%).
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Give something, take something... it's an economic tool to help push players towards choosing factions (even if not player factions) to get experience with, and if you tweak it right (as in the Navy above), it can be a tool you can use to address some balance issues.

It's not at all different from what happens with every update and the minor market price adjustments, but if it took place on a faction level, it could change how people value being in a faction.

It doesn't address the guys flying around ignoring RP and just messing thing up... but hey, you could put big taxes on the Civilian ID to make people want to put the time in and move up. If someone is about to F things up and not RP right, they won't be up for putting the extra time and effort it takes to get past civ.

Just my thoughts.

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::The Pennsylvania Liberation Force

[barrenwzste]

Cannon,
I stand corrected. You wish to entice, not coerce, I chose poorly when wording my reply. I do not think we should force independant players to join factions either. My view has always been to balance faction pro's and con's so as to make them more disireable to the independants. I have stated, in accordance with your rewards idea, that giving factions things that independants don't get is the only way to do this.

As to your first point, I'm afraid I don't understand. How can you expect factions to help rules and role play challenged players if there are no consequences to thier actions? Yes, by all means, lets keep it fun. But if there are no consequences to ignoring rp, then people are going to continue to do it. Simply screenshotting and banning players doesn't seem to be working, or this wouldn't still be an issue. I understand that there are always going to be those who, no matter what we do, will break the rules. That said, the system we are using isn't working, or you wouldn't be calling for ideas and the problem would be minimal. We have only two options, make the rewards for following the rules to awesome to ignore, or make the limits on those who refuse to rp to much to continue. Either way, and I've stated support for either or both, the ones who will be adversly affected by this, primarily independants, are going to make a fuss.

Humanity is, by it's very nature, selfish. The way to deal with it is to reward them for unselfish acts while sanctioning selfish behavior, to a point. No person can, or should, be totally selfless. Reward those who help the community, limit those who don't, and show the ones who are wavering how much fun helping and comraderie can be. You have to have all three aspects for it to work, though. Checks and Balances to correct us when we err, rewards for when we do well, and comunal support. This is the basis of every society, real or artificial. In the case of Discovery, the factions and faction members are doing the most to promote growth within the social dynamic, the Independants the least. Therefore, reward the Factions, limit the Independants. Then, as we do now, the factions reach out to new players and Independants and show them the rewards that go with the effort. It may be, that in the future, the roles will reverse. But, here, now, the problem stands as stated.

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&quot;Two things I know; Gravity sucks and Ion Storms blow. And that proves the universe is trying to kill us all&quot; - Barren Waste, Captain of the Wasteland Wanderer

An approximation of my reaction when I see my next victim...er, these forums.

[Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever]

No. Independents deserve to be such. I'd rather not get punished twice if I get sanctioned. Once by an adult who likes power (Admins) and then AGAIN by a kid who likes power and has a future being a cop or a principal.

To control the "Independent Problem" as you all call it, Do Jihad's idea. Seriously, He's golden

A. One warning to said cap indi (or even official indi) outlining what he did wrong
B. Does it again, Admin intervenes and tells him to shape up
C: Ship removed from char.

[Tales23]

Alright I wanted to give my 2 Cents in the other thread but it was locked so I'll give it here.

I believe that it's a good idea to give some advantages or bonuses to Official factions for the simple point that Independents have an advantage of their own. Independents don't have restrictions on ships and look at it this way, why spend a month to earn a Gunship when you can buy one as a Indy and RP it yourself?

Well to the RPer the simple reason because it's a lot more rewarding to be part of the faction is not going to be everyone's answer.

The problem with Factions as I see it is that a lot of people don't want to join factions because they can RP anything they want. Now there are people who were saying some faction leaders are jerks and well I hate to burst your bubble but not all of them are, what about the one that isn't that actually creates rolepaly for people? Should they suffer because a few leaders are jerks? (The answer is no.)

I believe that Factions should have some bonuses because even with the RP they provided they are disadvantaged compared to Indies, and just to touch on the Elitism part of this topic there is a difference between those who think they are better and people who have earned something because they have put a lot of work into something. If a faction works hard and provides something like RP to the server do they not deserve a reward for that hard work? What if that faction isn't based on making Credits OOCly or actually looses credits being run? What about that?

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