Staff Feedback Thread

[Luke.]

I see both sides as somebody who has staffed large communities in the past even up until recently in circles larger but far disconnected from Discovery, where sanctions are instead dealt with via ticket systems and therefore privately for the most part.

It's a tough one because you don't want to put your foot down too hard on a server that is fragile in terms of playerbase at the moment. Understandable. How long this has been the case for I'm not really sure, someone else can answer that but I understand feeling like you don't want to cause problems for a faction that is effectively driving activity. Perhaps there's been words behind closed doors to the highest in command regarding reports to make them sort it out internally and prevent the reports from flying in more when the offences are at least not game-breaking (like cheating etc.) which is effectively still dealing with the issues but not in the public eye.

When it comes to sifting through reports, it is also sometimes hard to discern between personal bias against others which warps just how bad something is, and genuine problems that are left to fester. There's also nuances of where and why, considering factors such as if it's justified to gank the shit out of someone if they're clearly just waltzing into clear enemy territory to cause trouble etc etc. There also needs to be time given to staff to deal with it because it's rare for it ever to be a job.

With all those nuances stated though, the problem and the other side of the coin to this is that no one knows for sure, and Discovery's system has always been about public call-out presumably to set an example for others. To address the post above me, it's not public execution and historically it has always worked fine so I wouldn't say it's a massive problem. Some may not even read forums and they'd be none the wiser, nor is harassment of any individuals that have been sanctioned tolerated. Wouldn't worry about that. People, if they see it in-game as well, may also opt to help them understand better too and I know of at least one instance of that occurring today alone. It is important to do that before blindly reporting it I think.

Regardless, if there's no word from staff in a system where people expect a certain standard, then people will assume nothing is being done in the event that rules are actually being broken, because they don't have a reason to believe otherwise. Silence in this case is causing unrest and with this alleged volume of issues being reported, something should be said publicly at least. No one is above the rules, after all and these things exist for a reason.

There is certainly an argument to be made that maybe the system is antiquated and not how to deal with things now but it doesn't really change that rules exist for any game's online server so I don't think this is much different. People just have to read.

I have no horse in this race, just my two cents.

---

[Laz]

In my opinion: Bans should be public, everything else should be private. Bans should be transparent so people know why someone is no longer around, but do you need to know NewPlayer56 was warned for not having an ID?

In an ideal world you'd have an automated ticket system so people who posted sanction reports / player requests can actually be updated to the status of their report/request, but I doubt anyone wants to develop anything for MyBB if they can avoid it.

---

[Interspace Commerce Exchange]

In my opinion: Bans should be public, everything else should be private. Bans should be transparent so people know why someone is no longer around, but do you need to know NewPlayer56 was warned for not having an ID?

In an ideal world you'd have an automated ticket system so people who posted sanction reports / player requests can actually be updated to the status of their report/request, but I doubt anyone wants to develop anything for MyBB if they can avoid it.

maybe ask when filling the sanction report, the discord id?
it will be easy to send a message with a status update afterwards, or maybe user can check with a slash command status for all active reports or feature requests

simple to code too, just scraping some forums

(meant to post as ashyur)

[Lemon]

In my opinion: Bans should be public, everything else should be private. Bans should be transparent so people know why someone is no longer around, but do you need to know NewPlayer56 was warned for not having an ID?

In an ideal world you'd have an automated ticket system so people who posted sanction reports / player requests can actually be updated to the status of their report/request, but I doubt anyone wants to develop anything for MyBB if they can avoid it.

This. Sanctions and warnings should be case by case, shouldn't matter about what player or faction you want to or don't want make an example of and publicly shame, bans aside because of shareds etc. This needs to stop.

If you want to keep making up rules by public precedent, do it without the player/ship names.

EDIT: I must say especially now that you gat the arbitrary "don't be a dick" rule that's entirely up to the voting whims of whatever majority happens to be active on staff, it's not even worth playing for me when I can be publicly shamed the next day with "only a warning" that gets hundreds of views about how you F***d up trying to play an ancient space shooter in your rare free time...

[Luke.]

Obscuring names is also a valid solution if you wish to appeal to a more modern playerbase. That is how a lot of places also do it. It is a product of time I think. More modern audiences are more sensitive to this sort of thing than before. Applies across all types of media.

---

[R.P.Curator]

I didn't want to, but I will!
BUCKET OF SALT! Not a pinch, a bucket.
Lets dive in:
- 1st IC of Wild faction has a claim about DTR; while his factions collect disgruntled ex DTR members, some of whom have been banned for toxic and malicious behavior, and mind you, high ranking Wild member and veteran of the game, who despite knowing the rules and being friendly with Admins, instead of adopting "It is what it is and its just a game", decided to get himself banned for toxic and malicious behavior
- Claim is targeted not at 1 or more players in the DTR faction, but at the leadership of the faction > by this precedent, you should be banned as well for your failure to maintain and teach your faction and your HC member about the rules of the server and conduct on the server
- You invoke a fight which was Order vs Noth vs Nomads vs Core vs Corsairs, an absolute Free For All, RED IS DEAD, King of the Hill Fight, and you expect sanctions! Everyone shot everyone, and at the end, the Corsairs didn't win. I should know, I was there as well, fighting against Corsairs. Is this another scenario "they disturbed our fight"? You had one of those several months ago against Order. You're in their ZOI, they can drop by. You can kindly ask them to leave (OORP) or stand down until you finish (OORP again). Did you do that? Nope.avi.
- You conveniently cherry pick certain screenshots of the fight, instead of providing the entire VR, which in itself validates the Staffs choice as not to enact sanctions. They saw the VR, they debated, voted and agreed.
- You once again claim "Gank", in a Free For All between 5 factions and in which DTR LOST! Mind boggling!
As a former DTR active member and Academy Sergeant I will say this:
- They do collect New Players like they're Pokemons
- They also DO TEACH THEM THE RULES OF THE SERVER! AND EXPLAIN! AND ENFORCE! AND EXPLAIN AGAIN! I should know, I was there in their VC for 3 years yelling at everyone about the rules. But hey, I maybe lying. Wait, there were Admins incognito in the DTR fleet, monitoring and overseeing how things are done.
- If DTR BAD! You'd see a streamline of warnings and reports against them by Staff, since technically and statistically, new players have a higher chance of breaking the rules. But you don't see that. Wanna know why? Cause DTR not BAD! Its not Favoritism as you claim, It's leniency and in house policing of your players - something you utterly fail to do and more over condone and participate in said toxic behavior - clear case: someone gets killed in space in a complex situation. Admins are notified by the reporting party, DTR contacts admins asking for clarifications - mind you, before or during the report being submitted (this is called being Proactive) and clarifies the situation - DTR acknowledges fault, passes the information down the line to the guys who did it while offering to reimburse for the loss activity. And look and behold, they don't do it again!
That is called learning from your mistakes and being Proactive. That is called maturity and trying your best to maintain and keep the server rules and a decent way to play the game.
You'd want them to get Warned, Banned, Sanctioned for this? Look at your own faction first. Look at your players dropping by and /1/2/3 traders in space, cause they can!
- Noth situation - Noth is ace stacked. They don't fly anything above GB. DTR skill is mediocre, at best. They fly caps. Poor Noth. No. Ever. They can wipe the floor with DTR and they regularly do. I'll give you another very simple example - Goliath (I apologize for invoking you or using your name. Its nothing personal, Its just a skill issue in your favor) logs in as Caliban, and goes to fight 4 DTR snubs. 15 Minutes later he posts in Pheonix Bounty Board claiming 4 DTR kills and 2M$. DTR ganked him eh? Hah!
I'd watch your merry band of ex DTR members having a hard on for hunting DTR as Nomads / Wild.
- Favoritism - If you provide evidence in which DTR is found guilty of malicious or toxic behavior, or of anything else than mediocre skill and getting their asses whooped 5 days a week all over Sirius, please submit the VR. In the meantime, mind your own faction and players, you know, those who got banned for being toxic and malicious on purpose. Oh, lets not forget the little new updated rule denying Caps /1/2/3 outside ZOI vs Nomads. Thats Favoritism! Not leniency. Its on request modifying the server rules so the main villains of the game don't get "overwhelmed" by other players. Poor poor Nomads.
- If you'd bother to log something else and watch DTR and what they do every night, you'd see a pattern: Mine, Trade Convoy, Fight - lose 5 times or more per week, win 1, Go to Conn and practice. Where's the "Bad Energy"? Where's the toxic and malicious intent? There isn't any.
I'm not defending the DTR HC, I clashed with them on internal policies not related to the game. But as a faction and group of players, they're borderline harmless, leaning over sitting ducks. They may get lucky or 1-2 skilled guys join them and win a fight, else, there's no toxicity in that faction related to the game or anything else. There's mistakes and being human. But they rectify them and try their best not to do them again. You want sanctions for that?? And on their HC? What sanction should you get cause of Nepo's ban? By that example.
As for Staff protection, here's some salt:
- This is a server that runs and lives on new players and people having fun! DTR having the biggest player base and the best recruiting / training of new players in the game speaks for itself on the quality and the fun that they bring to the table
- If your faction or any other faction would be half as fun, you'd rival them. But you don't. And that speaks for itself.
- Until DTR starts being toxic and malicious, like some of other players and factions, the best you can invoke is Staff Leniency. Which is well deserved, cause DTR are proactive in teaching and maintaining the server rules within their own player base as well as keeping things civilized and fun for everyone - or as close as possible in Discovery Freelancer. I didn't mention the active participation in events by its members, as "targets" for the rest of the server.
If the Leniency parts irks you, maybe you should mimic DTR and see how it goes. Maybe your faction would grow and be fun to play and interact with. Oh... wait... nah! You already got the Favor of the Discovery Gods with that "No Cap Hunting Nomads outside ZOI".
Server needs to run. People need to log. DTR makes that happen every night. You don't. You complain and report. They don't. Who brings the bad energy to the table?

[Luke.]

Glad to know that what I'd suggested might be happening (clarification and teaching behind the scenes), is likely the case.

---

[jammi]

I find the whole public forum shaming sanctions and warning system staff have awfully off putting to casuals and beginners, there's go to be a better way...

There currently isn't. The reason they're public is because we don't have game accounts that are strongly tied to a user login, i.e. a forum account.

If you were forced to register a forum account to access to the server and all of your characters were tied to it through the launcher, staff would contact people directly rather than posting notices publicly.

This just happens to currently be the only practical way to let people know precisely what happened.

While I'm not speaking for the team with the above, I can confirm that they're aware of the recent posts here and are discussing it.

---

News article library, feedback and content requests.

[Ravenna Nagash]

Isn't trial by forum essentially against the rules? Anyway, I like data and facts when it comes to these sort of things.

• DTR has consistently remained top in terms of activity from creation to today. Despite my retirement in the beginning of 2023. Every single leader of DTR after me managed to retain a level of activity in the faction that is absurd in terms of output compared to every other faction. The data is there and can be seen by everyone.
  
• No other faction spends more time in onboarding, retaining, and training new players or helping out returning vets. Many of these people subsequently join other factions or even lead them.
  
• DTR has to my knowledge next to zero repeat sanctions for 98% of our sanctions for the same individual. This is important to understand because if DTR was so bad as some people try to make it, you would have the same people repeatedly sanctioned. This is demonstrably not the case. It's an absolute no-brainer that high activity, complex rules, and high number of new players correlate to higher percentage of sanctions. Conversely - barely playing, high veteran/ace numbers, no new players leads to low or no number of sanctions.
  
• DTR is a casual group. Always has been, always will be unless the model that I created dramatically switches. Again - casual players. It's not a hardcore faction for RP, it's not a hardcore faction for PVP. This fact continues to elude people. Some DTRs specialize in things they want to improve in which is voluntary. This means that (demonstrably true) DTR has moderate PVP skill which results in DTR generally losing more fights than winning. No one in DTR really complains about that. If DTR dominated in PVP due to numbers or skills - this would be potentially cause of concern but this is clearly not the case.
  
• DTR is just generally there to have fun, nothing more and nothing less. I invite anyone to join DTR and see how it is internally or what the process is like or to join voice.
  
• Every sanction is discussed, feedback is discussed, changes are made, people are talked to. Actions are being taken.
  
• DTR provides other groups with things to do or even the bare minimum - easy kills.
  

Then you have a small group of people that:

• Constantly harass and log anywhere DTR goes to prevent their activities.
  
• Talk about raping in their group chat as evidenced by the recent YouTube video in the DTR feedback thread.
  
• Have openly stated that they enjoy the drama and causing drama.
  
• Have openly stated that they want people gone from the server and they will do everything in their power to remove people one way or another.
  
• Are some sort of Schrödinger victim where they openly brag about how amazing they are in PVP and how bad DTR is but somehow at the same time are also a victim despite winning about 70-80% of all fights.
  
• If DTR somehow wins any fight, there's always some drama. DTR always cheated or did something bad.
  
• On top of harassment, records every fight trying to basically get somebody sanctioned on the off chance someone even tangentially breaks any rules. It's honestly pathetic. Openly reports new players and tries to get them punished which I don't think I need to explain what effect it has.
  

I think it's basically a no-brainer.

---

Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.

[Eternal.Journey]

This issue is not related to “not seeing rulebreaks punished in forums”, its a distinct lack of willingness to do anything to the faction, be they a talking to for the new player, or a punishment for their veteran and experienced players.

Staff have decided to promote talks (which actually failed last night with the remaining Admin leaving said Group DM for observational talks between 1ICs) or have actively voted for a 6v18 to be labelled as fair (and within that a subsequent 1v10. Lol). As far as these instances are concerned, it is a deliberate inaction against this faction. For fear of what, I have no idea.

On the flip side, (\^/)Cassandra got reported for re-engaging i believe by Deterrence, and that report took mere days on both occasions to punish them. Two offences. Simple mistakes that can be made by believing they’re far enough away to dock and swap to something more combat worthy when they instead are not. Punished. Actioned. Quite fast considering this “huge backlog” we have.

Point is, if staff were as active at punishing DTR or actually educating them as they were the people that do wrong to DTR, I wouldn’t have to be correcting the irrelevant tangent that has been brought up.

As for “R.P.Curator”. Your wall likely preaches about “Deterrence being such a good, active and positive impact on the community”, about how its the “Alien Players faults and their toxic behaviours that make it happen” and for bonus points some upset about recent rule changes I’d bet. The truth is, you should have been banned long ago for your negative impact and horrid treating of others. Bad mouthing people in public VCs (in event VCs with staff present, no less), spreading hate OORP, demanding people report and do nothing else instead of try to talk things out with people is the exact opposite of what should be welcome in the community.

---