Bundschuh: Terrorists or not?

[Zephyranthes]

I will say that I think this is a terribly subjective point to be having high level lore discussions on, as what the state calls something is entirely separate from what that organization actually does.

I mean one of my contentions accompanying this would be that the term "terrorist" isn't terribly useful as a neutral descriptor of anything due to its inherently value-laden nature. Websites like Wikipedia specifically discourage its use in this regard for reasons like that in its Manual of Style. Disco writing doesn't seem to assign righteousness or moral high ground to any particular group, so I feel that's pertinent.

[Shulsky]

It's 100% a terrorist organization, similar to the Xenos, the Militants, the Mollys, the Blood Dragons, the Maquis, and the Order. It's attempting to overthrow the currently established government of an area through force, coercion, so on.

Whether or not this is for a good or just cause is entirely separate from the question 'are they a terrorist'.

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Operation Have Sea

[Lord Caedus]

The Bundschuh would be labeled as terrorists by the powers that they fight against. They may not engage in indiscriminate killing like the Maquis do, but they certainly carry out targeted attacks against those they fight against, and use tactics commonly associated with what we view as terrorists from an ooRP perspective. The Bundschuh are terrorists purely because they oppose the ruling government, not because of how they do so.

There is really nothing that separates the Bundschuh using a small bomb to blow up a car with an infected member of the Rheinland power structure inside from the MND sending in a strike team to shoot an infected businessman in the head while they're asleep in bed. Does that make the MND terrorists? If the tactics were reversed, would the MND be terrorists but the Bundschuh not be?

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[Catto]

The age-old debate of whether stealing a chicken during a revolution can be done for ideological reasons or is still a criminal act. This thread should be interesting.

To clarify the initial statement, conflict between large groups inside a society tends to be, in my opinion, more about how the actions of a group are perceived at large, rather than what category they fall under. The Bundschuh remain terrorists so long as the public believes they are, and for player characters would be freedom fighters, if the character's freedom is fought for. Whilst hostile factions currently exist as foils to the Bundschuh, the latter can only become more than bandits by aiding third parties within their ideological framework.

Give the chicken to the orphans of Erie, for they suffer even today.

[Dusk]

Personally, I really enjoy this point of conflicting views as a pretext for rp, which I'm actually participating in right now. It's fun. "Terrorist" as a term is very provocative and evokes an almost instinctive repulsion in many, so some (my character included) find it hard to live with this label. It's so much so that they want to wash it off and deny it entirely.

I think there's really no definitive answer here, it depends entirely on who you ask. Bundschuh definitely fall into this category from the Rheinland government's perspective, and more seasoned members of the movement might also simply accept it. Those who sympathize with the Bundschuh are unlikely to call them terrorists simply because of the negative connotations of the word.

The Bundschuh remain terrorists so long as the public believes they are

I tend to agree with this most here.

[Catto]

The Bundschuh remain terrorists so long as the public believes they are

I tend to agree with this most here.

Please agree with giving chickens to the orphans too, sheesh. Nobody gives a damn about Erie these days.

[Dusk]

The Bundschuh remain terrorists so long as the public believes they are

I tend to agree with this most here.

Please agree with giving chickens to the orphans too, sheesh. Nobody gives a damn about Erie these days.

No, because it's my job to give them a chicken. What will I do if everyone will suddenly give chickens to orphans as a consequence of this thread?

[Weapon]

It's 100% a terrorist organization, similar to the Xenos, the Militants, the Mollys, the Blood Dragons, the Maquis, and the Order. It's attempting to overthrow the currently established government of an area through force, coercion, so on.

Whether or not this is for a good or just cause is entirely separate from the question 'are they a terrorist'.

So long as you can defend your stance that the Continental Army was a terrorist force.

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Recruitment | Task Force Prometheus | ICN FIRESTORM

[Catto]

The Bundschuh remain terrorists so long as the public believes they are

I tend to agree with this most here.

Please agree with giving chickens to the orphans too, sheesh. Nobody gives a damn about Erie these days.

No, because it's my job to give them a chicken. What will I do if everyone will suddenly give chickens to orphans as a consequence of this thread?

I think that sounds rather amazing. Bring Krumpus to Erie early, Discovery!

[Nodoka Hanamura]

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. They're both.

This.

My KOI document on the Oita incident is a prime example of this. Ouroboros portrayed themselves as liberators from a dated imperial system and wanted to shift Kusari into a progressive 'beacon on the hill' for the Sirius Sector. To people like Sanae, the KOI's upper echelons and the very Keiretsu CEOs who would be first on the chopping block before Hanamura would have nationalized the two of them - the Ouroboros, and causes like them, from the Gen'an to the KLA, are terrorists - because it fits their worldview, because they are the ones being targeted, and calling them as such contributes to their soft power aims.

However, one can be more objectively a terrorist based on their ethics and priorities. We call islamist radicals in the real world, terrorists, primarily because they have little care or regard for the innocent, and are more than willing to do egregious, horrible things, even if it, like say, Al-Qaeda and 9/11, would blow up in their face. The French Resistance of WW2, are more in line with freedom fighters, because their ROE was very tight - they prioritized killing of German forces, undermining their power, and engaging in espionage to disrupt operations across several domains. They never attacked civilians. At least those not aiding and abetting the Nazi regime.

The Bundschuh, at least as represented by The Platform, comes off as the latter more than the former. If you want an example of the former in Discovery, look to Pre-RPA Mollies or the Red Hessians.

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