Generic pirate vs faction pirate

[Primus Avatar]

ok, you guys know how bizarre example i sometimes present, but I'm 100% sure that someone will be able to post their opinion too.

example:

Generic pirate ID / no tag / Hacker bomber = let's call him Hulk

Junker ID / junker tag / advanced train = call him Dave

-Dave enters Chugoku

-Indie blood dragons are asking him "what business do you have here?" and all sorts of provocative questions.

-Dave RPs bout some business, so the indies don't know what to do with him, they only know that NovaPG would surely kick him out. But they listen to his RP all confused, nothing happens.

-Hulk had an agreement with the local indies that allowed him to harass power-traders with taxes in Chugoku on the opposite JH.

-Hulk comes to the JH where the Junker had been stopped, and tells him: "beat it Dave, you're not welcome here"

-the junker sees Hulk as an generic indie pirate, not directly affiliated with Blood Dragons. NovaPG would kick him too.

-the junker and blood dragon indies just stand there. Hulk repeats his question but the Junker remains silent.

-Hulk starts shooting and brings down Dave's Hull to minimum without killing him. Dave still remains silent.

-Hulk *sighs*, stop shooting and tells Dave that he will spare his life for 1 million credits.

-Dave repairs his hull with nanobots and batteries. The dragon indies observe this weir situation without a word. Dave still remains at the same point he was stopped 3 min ago and remains silent.

-Hulk *sighs* again and announces: "arrogant fool" Starts shooting (to kill) and Dave responds with fleeing from Chugoku. Hulk doesn't follow since he got what he and the indies wanted.

mind this rules before posting an opinion.

6.9 Generic IDs (Military ID, Freelancer ID, Pirate ID, Trader ID, Smuggler ID) indicate characters that did not join an NPC faction, but still maintain appropriate reputation with those factions, and appropriate faction tag, if any tag is available.

6.17 Owners of Pirate IDs have a right to attack:

- Military/Police
- Bounty Hunters
- Trader ships that do not pay for passage
- Unfriendly pirates

6.19 Pirates and terrorists have a right to deal as much damage as they see fit before or after demanding money from a trader ship, but killing trader ship before demanding money or cargo is not allowed. Attacking traders or demanding cargo is not allowed for cruisers and battleships, unless cruisers and battleship belong to Terrorist ID or Phantom ID owner.

Now, take all into consideration, all aspects and judge thus:

was Hulk ooRP for attacking/taxing the Junker, or not?




all thou i would love to see flame-fests avoided i know it cannot be undone. I may have opened another Pandora's box unless the community is one-sided about this matter (not that im interested in copy/paste opinions)

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wassup

[Saigo.Watanabe]

well if he wasnt directly affliated with the blood dragons and doing that in Chugoku then, yes he would be oorp. However if an ally of BD he has the right to be in chugoku but not tax traders ( apart from gc as chugoku is also there home as said in the Ainu Depot News) But if he was neither a ally of bd or actually bd affiliated then he would also be kicked out...

In my opinion anyway.

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"Time is too precious to be idle." - Saigo Watanabe
"Death is something that is inevitable, Something you cannot run away from." - Katharina Hildegard
Now going under the gaming name: Seraxia
www.twitter.com/Seraxia

[Taffic]

Who said their is no honour amongst thieves?

Ignoring the specifics of your scenario - I see nothing wrong with pirating a pirate.

A rule whore might argue that 6.17 was being violated, but how friendly is a victim gonna be when 99% of their hull has been stripped away?

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[sovereign]

Okay. The pirate world keeps in mind that if you're either a predator, prey, or competition. If this was Liberty Rogues telling generic pirates (I'm going to ignore the term 'indy' here, it means nothing as this situation applies fully with or without factions) 'get off our turf' that would be fine and dandy. Rule people might argue about it, but at the end of the day it's sound RP.

But then, the Blood Dragons aren't pirates. This Junker wasn't a pirate either. He was a trader.

So, trader goes into system owned by faction x. Pirate goes 'oh look, prey'. Faction x wonders about kicking out trader and pirate. Pirate has free reign to accost the trader. Faction x, being on home ground, can say 'not on our turf mate' and kick out the pirate, or say 'not through our turf mate' and demand the trader drops cargo, or both. In the specific case of Chugoku, I would say both would be appropriate. Blood Dragons are still traditionalist Kusari people- it's who holds the robe and scepter that bothers them, not the way they are used. Traditionalist Kusari people hate foreigners, and "Hulk" and "Dave" are both foreigners. So, get off our turf seems reasonable.

In rules context, if Adv. Trains with Junker IDs can't be taxed, that ID will be whored more than Zoner IDs for power-traders. For generic IDs, the location is immaterial rules-wise. Your backstory sets your personal code of conduct, but rules-wise a generic pirate can pirate wherever he wants. This doesn't mean it is against the Blood Dragons' rules, and they can blow him up if he doesn't leave should they so choose. Faction rules != server rules.



So, to recap, Hulk can pirate Dave free of sanction. The Blood Dragons can also politely say to Hulk "Leave now or you will never leave." The Blood Dragons can also say to Dave "Ahem. Drop the cargo and get out of our sight." No rules broken, although Hulk should have known a bit better than to ply his trade in a system that doesn't appreciate foreigners. Mayhaps I can convince the HG to offer a little bounty on Hulk to get the picture across. In case it still hasn't sunk in, Hulk's actions are punishable by roleplay not by banhammer.

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[Primus Avatar]

well it just happens i was directly involved/observing this scenario.

The lack of communication left me stunned. I was unsure who was "right"


my opinion is that BD indies (not NovaPG) were allies of the generic pirate.

The junker was not. However discussing if a pirate is able to tax another pirate is really all i need to know.

and yes, the junker was unfriendly in terms of competition for a specific JH or system. If they cant work with each other they are competition and thus unfriendly.

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wassup

[Primus Avatar]

So, to recap, Hulk can pirate Dave free of sanction. The Blood Dragons can also politely say to Hulk "Leave now or you will never leave." The Blood Dragons can also say to Dave "Ahem. Drop the cargo and get out of our sight." No rules broken, although Hulk should have known a bit better than to ply his trade in a system that doesn't appreciate foreigners. Mayhaps I can convince the HG to offer a little bounty on Hulk to get the picture across. In case it still hasn't sunk in, Hulk's actions are punishable by roleplay not by banhammer.

i see. well that seems fine for the hulk and less fine for poor ol dave. btw the names are fictional.


and thanks for making it so clear.

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wassup

[worldstrider]

You absolutely can pirate a pirate--its simply a question of whether or not its in your best interest. Pirating a Dragons ain't so wise. A Junker--depends on whether or not they are with us and who you have with you to back you up.

Its not oorp unless its fanatically suicidal.

We stopped some Dragons pirating Junkers the other day and I corrected a person saying "it would get them sanctioned"--I just explained there were in game consequences that weren't favorable for them and pointed out how cooperating is better but explained they wouldn't be sanctioned for it if they chose to. Have had no problem since.

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[Srkad]

These kinds of posts are getting very annoying...Now im not saying that i havn't posted countless posts in the Rules section of the forum, but if your a pirate you can pirate what ever trader you want, you can bring them to within an inch of their life before you even demand a single credit as long as you dont kill them, and if they sit there and do nothing for three minutes blow their ass out of the sky.

CASE CLOSED

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[chovynz]

Case Open! Ooo lookie what we found here.

Generic pirate sees advanced train.
Pirates asks for money.
Train flees.
No oorp.

It doesnt matter what ID they have, if someone is in an train, frieghter or
transport, they are in a trading ship and so can be called to be "traders".
Even if they have a pirate ID, you can still pirate them. Irrespective of
where this piracy happens. A generic pirate is just that. They can ply their
trade everywhere. Even in prison. (Id like to see that.:D)

Even going into a guard system is not "oorp." It's the faction / owners
responsibility to guard their guard system borders. Not for other people to avoid it.

Heck you could also try pirating in a starflier right outside Manhattan, and still not be "oorp".
You wont be a very successful pirate, but your not "oorp". (I seriously hate that term.)

I'm willing to be corrected but thats my current take on it.

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Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.

[Tenacity]

First off, "dave" was oorp to begin with. Powertrading through chugoku, no matter what your excuse, is a no-no, even for a junker - because a junker should not be going into kusari unless absolutely necessary, or if he's on a "mission" to provoke hogosha/FA.

My dragon character does not give any mercy to traders attempting to go through chugoku. I tax them 2 million -minimum-, and I tax every single time the trader goes through that system, even on their return trips. The point is to force them to stop using an OORP route to get cash quick.

As for "hulk", unless he stated beforehand that he was "working with/for" the novapg or HG, he should have been evicted from the system as well. Let him pirate in hokkaido or sigma 13, not in chugoku. The dragons do not allow anyone but the GC in their system, and even 'allies' (such as outcasts) are kept under a very close eye and only allowed to pass through the system, never to land on kyoto or go to tau 63.

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