Anonymity of Rule Violation Reports

[Zero755]

People that do get sanctioned have ever right to and sometimes do appeal their sanctions. All they have to do is post in the report thread.

Yes trial by forum happens now, but imagine how much worse it would be if everyone wanted to put their two cents in on everysanction.

And Aku your sanction turned into a giant poo flinging fest because you made such a big deal about it

As for retailitory reports, that is WHY the names of the reporters are kept hidden, to prevent that from happening. If the person being sanctioned dosent know who filled out the report, how can he/she retailiate?

As for faking evidence, how could you tell? Without software to determine if a SS was tampered with there is no real proof of tampering. It would just be he said she said.

I still think the names of the accuser should be kept hidden, I think the system works just fine the way it is. 90% of the time it is open and shut cases, cheaters, hackers, Obviously OORP ships (Outcasts using Corsair equipment etc.) I still back the Admins on this one.

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[Primus Avatar]

It's not my decision to make, but I for one would rather be dragged through the mud openly and have a chance to defend myself than have some people behind closed doors judging me when they don't have my side of the story.

I think everyone here is aware of that one. I agree that one needs a strong personality to argue with the authorities and demand clarification for their sanctions.

This however should not be the case...admins would certainly gain favor by posting the report-images openly while censoring the accusers name and ship. It may be a bit hard to handle but otherwise people will continue to retaliate and matters will only formally be "solved" and the accused will have learned nothing from it.

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wassup

[Primus Avatar]

If the person being sanctioned dosent know who filled out the report, how can he/she retailiate?

its quite simple. They would accuse admins for false sanctions. Arguing how they haven't posted evidence. You only need to scroll a bit trough thee threads to see how unhappy those sanctioned can be.

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wassup

[Akumabito]

People that do get sanctioned have ever right to and sometimes do appeal their sanctions. All they have to do is post in the report thread.

It doesn't work that way, you still are not allowed to see the evidence against you, and not allowed any real input. The appeal process is a process in name only.

Yes trial by forum happens now, but imagine how much worse it would be if everyone wanted to put their two cents in on everysanction.

They still want that now, what stops that isn't whether it's open or not, what stops that is if the admin actually moderates the thread to prevent it.

And Aku your sanction turned into a giant poo flinging fest because you made such a big deal about it

No, it turned into a giant poo fling because people were allowed by admins to spam the sanction thread. The point being is that a secret trial doesn't stop trial by forum, it only delays it or moves it.

As for retailitory reports, that is WHY the names of the reporters are kept hidden, to prevent that from happening. If the person being sanctioned dosent know who filled out the report, how can he/she retailiate?

People retaliate with sanction reports on people who angered them for other reasons. That's why secret reports increase retaliatory reports.

As for faking evidence, how could you tell? Without software to determine if a SS was tampered with there is no real proof of tampering. It would just be he said she said.

As it is now someone could be using this tactic and no one would know. In an open system you would see the screenie and then be able to say "this is faked", and even if they didn't believe you, other people might be able to verify or at the very least they would watch the guy who reported it to see if this happened again.

Right now anyone can generate screenies that say anything by using their own server and characters with your character name and you would never know, because you are not allowed to see the screenie.

I still think the names of the accuser should be kept hidden, I think the system works just fine the way it is. 90% of the time it is open and shut cases, cheaters, hackers, Obviously OORP ships (Outcasts using Corsair equipment etc.) I still back the Admins on this one.

It isn't the 90% that matters, it's the 10% where there is some question, where something is misunderstood or misrepresented where it's important.

An open process keeps sanctions fair. There is no other way to make sure sanctions are being applied fairly.

its quite simple. They would accuse admins for false sanctions. Arguing how they haven't posted evidence. You only need to scroll a bit trough thee threads to see how unhappy those sanctioned can be.

And sometimes they have a valid reason to be upset. In an open system if the accusation against an admin is made there is no doubt, because everyone can see the evidence for themselves.

I agree that one needs a strong personality to argue with the authorities and demand clarification for their sanctions.

The problem is that not only will the admins not clarify your sanction, they will threaten you with banning for continuing to ask.

[Zero755]

It isn't the 90% that matters, it's the 10% where there is some question, where something is misunderstood or misrepresented where it's important.

An open process keeps sanctions fair. There is no other way to make sure sanctions are being applied fairly.

ok, that being the case, instead of making every sanction visible, make the 10% visible to the ones involved only. If someone is reallying advocating that they were wronged, (like you Aku) the admins can PM the involved parties the links to the SS's. It sounds like this would be the best option, it eleminated trial by forum, and the accused gets to see the evidence against them. The admins moderate the sanction forums to prevent off topic garbage, flaming, and trial by forum. Which happens and gets nothing accomplished. Maybe bring on a couple of more moderators that specialize in dealing with the 10% and making sure both parties see the evidence.

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[Akumabito]

ok, that being the case, instead of making every sanction visible, make the 10% visible to the ones involved only. If someone is reallying advocating that they were wronged, (like you Aku) the admins can PM the involved parties the links to the SS's. It sounds like this would be the best option, it eleminated trial by forum, and the accused gets to see the evidence against them. The admins moderate the sanction forums to prevent off topic garbage, flaming, and trial by forum. Which happens and gets nothing accomplished. Maybe bring on a couple of more moderators that specialize in dealing with the 10% and making sure both parties see the evidence.

That would work. I still think all sanctions totally transparent would insure the most fair process to everyone, but there has to be some real method of appeal that isn't just lip service.

If the community wants fair sanctions that is.

It should also be timely or, as is done in courts sometimes, the sanction should be suspended pending an open appeal, otherwise the admins just drag their feet until it's over.

[n00bl3t]

Akumabito, let me tell you this now.

If reports were public right at this second, and you received a sanction two seconds from now you would be banned for eternity if there was public involvement.

You've seen people flame you just because it's the current "in" thing to do. I mean, seriously, people posting posts which can be paraphrased to "I'm so cool i just blocked Akum", there's even people who start threads advertising how to block you, people who have had "block Akum" in their sigs and even "anti-Akum" in their user titles.

I still feel that public sanctions would be nice, but frankly with the immature people that we have here who do not have an ability to comprehend such things it would not work.

If it was public, but only the poster of the sanction, Admins and the one receiving the sanction were able to post and the thread was able to be viewed, but not posted in, it could work.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Akumabito]

Akumabito, let me tell you this now.

If reports were public right at this second, and you received a sanction two seconds from now you would be banned for eternity if there was public involvement.

How so? Open doesn't mean voted on by the faction leaders.

The Admins allowed my sanction thread to be spammed for days and it didn't result in a ban, even though there are people actively trying to get me banned.

I agree that there are quite a few immature people here who like to spam, pile on, insult, etc... and who don't care about being fair, but that's the way it is no matter what system we use.

By open system I'm not advocating letting people spam sanction threads.

[chopper]

You've seen people flame you just because it's the current "in" thing to do. I mean, seriously, people posting posts which can be paraphrased to "I'm so cool i just blocked Akum", there's even people who start threads advertising how to block you, people who have had "block Akum" in their sigs and even "anti-Akum" in their user titles.

Yep. That's me. Wanna know why?
Because every thread he sticks his nose in gets locked because he makes it an admin-bash thread, instead of a discussion.
I was so pissed off for that thread being locked because of him only because I asked him 5 times not to do what he was going to do.
And he did it.
And I lost patience, and temper pretty much.
I can discuss all kinds of things, and I even like discussing them. That's not a problem.
Problem is when you can't discuss it because you get every post hit-retaliate - boom - thread locked.

And no, not all courts respect full transparency.
You have witnesses that only agree to testify if their ID is unknown, even today.
Best example for this is Haag court for war crimes.

Trust me, to get sanctioned the other side needs really good evidences.
I'v submitted some 5 reports in my whole career here, only 3 got trough, and I even tried to get the best evidence I could.
It just wasn't enough.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Fellow Hoodlum]

And another thread gets the *chubb mode* This has been dealt with, and is wandering off towards flammability

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Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."