Bombers vs. VHFs

[AceofSpades]

I'm an avid bomber pilot, love bombers, only fly bombers.

Many complain that bombers are too good against fighters.

Heres a solution I saw on another server....

Bombers on this server had 4 gun slots, but the weapons were class 6 or 7. Thusly, the rapid fire (anti-fighter) weaponry was extremely poor, best suited for whittling away at capships shields in fact... 4 Debs or such. Also, I believe rotation speed was a little lower.... this was balanced by the following:

However, bombers had three (or four for awhile, when there was no heavy heavy SNAC type torp) torp slots. This allowed, and would allow, for combinations like CD, Inferno, Snova. Which would leave a bomber excellent against some capital ships, and large trade ships while leaving it terribly open to fighters. Some bombers were even more set for non-piracy, pure capship killing goodness. Sporting the equivalent of two infernos/razors and a snova. These ships were deadly to caps, but obviously were quickly eaten up by VHFs.

I believe that the bombers we have right now are really like fighter bombers.. They still have 4 Class 10 guns, so basically your trading slight amounts of rotation speed, and 2 class 9 guns, for a Supernova cannon. If bombers were far more unique. Lacking real gun power but having immense torpedo ability, i think we'd solve the problem of "super versatile butt kicking bombers"

Just an idea, maybe absurd. Comment...

edit: oh on another note, the reduced rotation and lesser guns is definitely offset (against caps) by another torp slot. If you think, moving from 4 imp. debs (like 600 shield damage each) to 4 regular debs (~350 each) and then adding an inferno (2250 shield damage) or even a Razor definitely increases your ability to tear through a capital ship quicker.

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[5:57:11 PM] InfernalTater (Lewis) [Formerly TLI-Inferno]:meanwhile, Aces 'I don't always miss my destinations, but when I do, I'm on the other side of house space.'

Seriously nerf Junkers.

Shoot to Thrill

[swift]

I like it.

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<span style="font-familyalatino Linotype">

<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.

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<span style="color:#33FFFF">The CFF</span>

<span style="color:#33FF33">CFF Communication Channel and RP Collection</span>

[13CentKiller]

But I like my bomber:(

Like you Ace, I am a big fan of bombers. *Looks at sig* I don't fly anything else except maybe the odd Heavy Fighter or gunboat.

I think they are fine *cries* Don't change them again! :(

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"Three o'clock is always too late or too early for anything you want to do."

[Wes_Janson]

I nearly compleatly agree.

Bombers are too over powerd against everything in general.

That said, bombers shouldnt be able to take on cap ships (Cruiser and up) alone.

Whats the point of a cap ship if two bombers can down one.

Cap ships are supposed to be MAJOR parts of a fleet, not just target practice.

Every fight Ive had with a bomber in a cap ship has been pretty hard, had one in a lib GB were me and the bomber killed eachother at the same time once, for example, and another today in a lib cruiser were I took significant hull damage before getting em (he knew how to use engine kill / strafe, and that boy could FLY)

There should be a sort of balance of caps/bombers/fighters.

Fighters, death to bombers, annoyance to caps execpt in large numbers.

Bombers, annoyance to fighters, death to caps in small to moderate numbers

Caps, death to fighters, threat to bombers. Counter with numbers or another cap.



Take caps, make increases to hull/sheild/sheild.regen.speed, reduce speeds more the bigger they get, add multiple class 4-5 turret slots for close range defence (cause lets face it the current FLAK turret is useless for what its name implies). Prehaps 2-3 defence slots for every main gun slot ?

[frozen]

anyone whos fought me in a bomber knows that my guns are mostly placeholders, just to fill in the slots, and to be used as distractions. what then?

also, might i point out, a fighter pilot can -easily- down a bomber pilot if he knows what hes doing. however, there are always exceptions, and since freelancer is directed heavily by skill, the exceptions are obvious.

in simpler words, balancing bombers is going to be hard without changing them too drastically, and with the release of 4.85 coming nearer and nearer, and with the vast amount of other changes that have been made, i dont know if much can be done (or rather, will be done) now. not everything is supposed to 'imitate' stuff in real life, and freelancer is a -very- clear example of that. however, maybe this idea could be tried for 4.86 (after all, its the big man who decides in the end anyway)

EDIT: i disagree. bombers are powerful against everything, but they -can-, AND -are- countered. hell, people say 3 bombers = death of a battleship. not entirely true, if the bs pilot knows how to use his ship properly. a sngle bs, with the current guns, can -easily- down a bomber.

lone caps -will- get raped by bombers. an all cap fleet with no fighter support -will- get raped by bombers.

EDIT (x2): also, alot of changes have been done/integrated into the new version. wait for that mod to be released for the public.

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[Ark]

When I first started studying the mod, I had the initial reaction of "omgwtf supernova" *by the numbers.*

I presently do not have enough combat experience to say one way or the other, and don't have my mind made up about it as a result. However, I submit for thought that capital ships are being buffed in the next version, and you may be GLAD for bombers and supernovas in their current incarnation then.

tl;dr you should wait for the next version before debating about bombers and supernovas one way or the other.

Edit: did I just post in the wrong thread? Why yes I did. Oh well, it fits well enough here. Guess I'm a little tired.

[Wes_Janson]

anyone whos fought me in a bomber knows that my guns are mostly placeholders, just to fill in the slots, and to be used as distractions. what then?

Your going for good roleplay, not PvP loadout. I respect that.

But a LOT of people dont care about RP, just 'pwning'.

Better, I think, to force people to RP with their loadout.

That, and or give caps better anti fighter weps (close range ones however).

Either get a realistic FLAK gun (proximity charge and or bursts @ specific range, 600m prehaps ?) and or add class 5 turret slots (2 for every regular gun prehaps ?) for close range defenseve action.

Yes, it DOES make it a LOT harder for fighters. That adds to realism, as you suddenly have to interact with other players to take it down

[Rudo]

I've always been of the belief that bombers should use bombs/torpedoes and the like. Make the torpedo cheaper and more effective, and make a bomber-only mine that also has ridiculous damage.

Big Freakin' Guns, while neat, are actually completely ridiculous in the right hands. I'm seeing more and more anti-fighter bombers that just engine kill and 1-2 fighters with a Razor/SN burst. Yes, that takes skill and experience on the bomber's part, and poor planning on the part of the fighter, but is still testament to the fact that bombers are actually still very effective against fighters while being death to caps.

There needs to be some drawback to using the big slow guns on a bomber as opposed to expendable ordinance. But that's my opinion.

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[frozen]

Your going for good roleplay, not PvP loadout. I respect that.

But a LOT of people dont care about RP, just 'pwning'.

Better, I think, to force people to RP with their loadout.

That, and or give caps better anti fighter weps (close range ones however).

Either get a realistic FLAK gun (proximity charge and or bursts @ specific range, 600m prehaps ?) and or add class 5 turret slots (2 for every regular gun prehaps ?) for close range defenseve action.

Yes, it DOES make it a LOT harder for fighters. That adds to realism, as you suddenly have to interact with other players to take it down

dont get me wrong, i play freelancer with my sights on pwning as well, just like everyone does. there is only a rare person who truly doesnt care about pvp, and is only here for the sake of pure RP. Like i said in the previous post, its best to wait for 4.85 and see all the changes and work everyone working on the mod have done, since alot of the ideas thrown out here have either been implemented (to a degree), or thrown out due to restrictions freelancer poses due to the lack of the source code.

i like playing freelancer due to the PVP aspects, not just the RP aspects of this server. and suffice to say, disco wouldnt be where it is if it wasnt for the perfect mix of RP and PVP (even though it is often tipped towards pvp between those who are ignorant of the forums)

I've always been of the belief that bombers should use bombs/torpedoes and the like. Make the torpedo cheaper and more effective, and make a bomber-only mine that also has ridiculous damage.

Big Freakin' Guns, while neat, are actually completely ridiculous in the right hands. I'm seeing more and more anti-fighter bombers that just engine kill and 1-2 fighters with a Razor/SN burst. Yes, that takes skill and experience on the bomber's part, and poor planning on the part of the fighter, but is still testament to the fact that bombers are actually still very effective against fighters while being death to caps.

There needs to be some drawback to using the big slow guns on a bomber as opposed to expendable ordinance. But that's my opinion.

Again, freelancer is restricted heavily (even though many barriers have been broken by all the modders working on various mods), and introducing a special bomber only mine means its mountable on anything that has a mine slot. it will be abused heavily, and quite frankly, i honestly dont want to see another rule springing up becuase some idiot decides to mount bomber-only epic mines on a LF and exploit the game.

1-2 with a razor+ supernova isnt easy, and not everyone can do it, becuase yes, it does require a lot of skill to do. but if a fighter falls for that, i call him stupid, because first of all, a fighter shouldnt be jousting a bomber head on anyway, and if (s)he does decide to joust head on, (s)he shouldnt do it shieldless, or without strafing while jousting. there are many techniques to out-maneuver a bomber, only difference is not many people use them.

again, wait for 4.85.

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[Wes_Janson]

The problem with waiting for .85 is we dont really know when tis coming out.

Last I heard, the maps themselves are finalized but thats it.