the rules developement

[Jinx]

i ll take the "advice" and put it into a separate thread. ( http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28181 )

what Xoria listed up is something i only partly agree with. its too easy a theory of causes, consequences ( and for that matter - blame )

the reasons why rules are or were needed must be differentiated. - some situations were disrupting gameplay from even an objective point of view, other situations were only perceived from some people point of view as disruptive - and others again are based on moot reasons.

like in real life - what those that decide .. decide about is brought to them by the "broad community". so when there is a feeling that the community is in need for something, - someone needs to act. - but it must be understood that the community is not a hive mind, is not speaking one single thought. - there are many currents within the community, some are loud, some are not. - some are able to make their point, others lack this ability, sometimes a minority manages to act like a majority, sometimes a majority fails to stand up against the minority.

what actually leads to a rule is a SUBJECTIVE perception of a detrimental situation. - but such situations are not objective, they are presented in a biased fashion. someone with the skill to present his case more professional has a much greater chance to succeed than someone that lacks that skill. - and that is not very dependent on the issue of the problem.

the example is the battleship "problem" - there was and still is a very profound hysteria about "everyone flying a battleship" - and hence the rule about [one battleship / player] was installed. - but no time in the whole discussion it was actually proved that there were really so many battleships that it would be detrimental for the server enviroment. - no statistics were presented, - it was all based on opinions.

but - it became a rule.

then there is the 4 hours lock out rule. - certainly a more important rule - especially with more and more players joining in ( although the numbers are decreasing again on the server for like a month ) - it was a consensus that a rule was needed... and it was put down to a public poll. - before the rule was installed, everyone was given a chance to share their opinion and their concerns.

and then - it became a rule.

another example is the publicly posted bounties. - it was never a real concern, pvp priority happened more and more, but the reason for that was not necessarily a behaviour that exploited the freedom of a faction. - yet, we got presented with a rule.

when the rule was released, there was a lot of critizism - and it was "softened" by saying that it was mostly still "down to common sense" - ... but still.. there was never a public poll about it, nor was the public really informed about making it a hard rule.

and this one, too - became a rule.

my critizism is that - the way it was written, ... is way too easy. - its not simply "you wanted it, now you have it" - the reasons, the situations and the consequences are very different from rule to rule. - there is not always a majority behind a rule - and if there is not a majority, there is no real consensus.

i wouldn t go as far as to say that we are given the "blame" for having so many rules ( although it sounds like it a little ) - but there are simply some rules that the majority simply never agreed on. - and so they cannot be blamed for it. - game disruptions are created by a minority, making the majority responsible for it is a way to deal with things - and yes, the majority must take the consequences ... .but not the blame.

that is my "whining" about - that ... if you justify such a thread, you gotto be very precise. a lot more than the thread was. - this is nothing personal - but i d like such a thread to differentiate all the currents in the community much better - and not treat the community as one big organism that follows one mind.

edit: since from previous occasions you happened to be very precise about the wording of others - i d like to point out that not every critizism is automaticly a "whine" as the term "whine" carries an implication of something unjust / negative in itself. if a *descriptive* thread is made to "explain" why we got so many rules, it gotto look into the matter, not just the outside.

and i haven t even touched restrictions ( and the consequently ooRPness ) of the upcoming restrictions that were sometimes installed "pre-emptively" before there was a real cause. - so they are a consequence before we got a reason for them. - that ... aswell does not mean that its something negative per se, it just means that reasons for rules are so different and colourful that one cannot just say that its a matter of consequences.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Xing]

oh, this gets my agreement. Although I don't truly give a damn about these new rules (matter of fact, I never read the original one), I'd hate to be blamed for something I've not caused.
This include the battleships restriction, even though people call me a capwhore. Really, this is somewhat in the ridicule...

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[Angelfire]

Your comments all make perfect sense Jinx....

If every player had the sense you have expressed, there would be no need for blanket rules...

The simple truth is: The bigger we grow, the less personal and individualistic the policies become.

It is impossible to consider every vote at this point... there are just too many players!

What you will need to come to terms with is that Disco is no longer a democracy. It is an Autocracy with instituted governance.

The community has an opportunity to 'Nay' the instituted governors at their institution and voice their thoughts at policy, but in the end, this is run more like a company than a country.

The profit of this company is fun - for everyone - and unfortunately this means that individual needs will take a back seat to the bottom line!

Thats how I see it anyhoo...

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The Chronicles of Angelfire

[Zig]

The simple truth is: The bigger we grow, the less personal and individualistic the policies become.

This is the crucial point. Subjective law is only effective as long as the subjective opinion in question is (by and large) universally shared. Good luck getting that to work on Discovery, or anywhere, for that matter.

It's like communism. Sure, brilliant in theory, but impossible in practice.

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Luls:

Role-play is not the be all and end all.

[Primus Avatar]

It's like communism. Sure, brilliant in theory, but impossible in practice.

1) communism (the bad part) is a twisted state of socialism (the brilliant part) where people are indeed not equal but few are "more equal" than others... i support the socialistic idea but human nature is deceiving us and it always ends up being communism.


2) i support Jinx's ideas: Where there's a Will there's a Way!

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wassup

[RonG777]

Good to see you made your point here Jinx. At least the community can read your view without any editing..:)

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--- " I might not be much help, but by God, I'm all the help you got" ---

EFFIN' ROLEPLAY GUYS ... off to flood we go for that - Hoodlum

[Grumblesaur]

Stereotypes...

Ironically, I was called a nerd today by some idiot. There's stereotyping for you.

Definition of nerd: One who is adept at intellectual study [especially math and science] yet often socially inept.

I for one have plenty of friends and am not socially inept, just awkward at times. It's just thinking on how to say certain things... that gets me. >_<

As for the blanket rules, if we have one guy who flies a Battleship around just to nuke people, screw the rule, can't we punish him instead of the community?

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[Lt.Cmdr.Olsav]

Im reposting from Xoria's thread since i think it pertinent:

Blodo's got it. As someone that took about a 10 month break from disco, and mind you i took the hiatus after more people came and rules were expanded etc, to come in now there are more laws one must memorize than in bloody real life.

Look by making our laws curb the excesses of few rather than the movement of the majority, we fall into a trap whereby every time someone comes and does something outrageous there is a proposal to ban whatever they did, and the punishments themselves are getting quite harsh. There used to be alot more warnings and fewer bannings.

And while the community may demand a law or demand more rights, it is up to the leaders of the server to be a sober second thought. Even should 90% of us want a law, the admins need to be able to look objectively and say, hey, while everyone might want it, in the long term is this the best solution, is this the best option for the server.

The atmosphere that should a rule be broken the heavens must break open and the breaker drowned in a righteous deluge of forum lawyers shouting from the tree tops that there is a necessity for a ban, or we must increase penalties or laws, or something of that nature, is ridiculous, and leads to the alienation of new players. Also it leads to an atmosphere on the server that, damn, since i don't want to be slapped with one of many sanctions i must screenie all portions of my game, since the dude I'm fighting with or talking too is mellow or is fine, but every tom dick and harry on the server is going to jump on any infraction minor or not of the rules.

We have to put the majority ahead of the minority when it comes to infractions, just because a few 12yr olds abuse a portion of the game, doesnt mean that everyone also must A) propose new rule B)waste time arguing about said rule C)getting upset by outcome and flaming D)have it made law and sets precedent for next time two shmucks screw up we all have to suffer.

Also to reiterate, admins, you arent beholden to the server population, benevolent dictatorship correct? If a proposed law looks unjust, then it is no law and must be stopped.

I say we need to cool our heels and stop the atmosphere of constant rule reporting, rule lawyering, and rule proposing, hell the BHG are a pittance of their former selves, and for what some idiots go screwing around. Justice should be tailored to the individual rather than the masses.

However, the admins are not the only ones responsible, we as players should step back and take a breather and don't let a couple deaths from a pvp-whore getting us rule happy, its a game, just because someone ruined your fun, don't let everyone else's be ruined too.

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RAHF.Lt.Karol.Olsav
fmr Lord Solar Admiral of the Helghast, fmr.RAHF-Olsav-[Cpt], fmr. {Helghast}(LSA-vhf)~Olsav, fmr.{Helghast}(LSA)~Olsav, aboard HCS. Kesselring

[n00bl3t]

Good to see you made your point here Jinx. At least the community can read your view without any editing..:)

Same thoughts here.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[kingvaillant]

I wholeheartedly agree with Jinx, she/he (don't be offended, but people all around here are always arguing whether you are a man or a girl XD ) made a very valid point.

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I would really like more cooperation between the community and the admin team when new rules are made or needed

EDIT about next post: I always though the same, but been always told the opposite XD

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Director of the Liberty Security Force: Fidelity, Bravery and Integrity

The Amundsen Zone-21 Restrictions