the Zoners

[Gemini893]

I wanted to keep this reply separate from my previous because the last was basically on topic, this one is response to off topic discussions going on here.

As for those that target zoners, do you really RP that and put zoners red on your rep card? Do you deny yourself the ability to dock at a zoner base? DO YOU ROLE PLAY THE PART YOU CLAIM TO PLAY by denying yourself the benefits of zoner neutrality? Most likely not, so you're just as guilty as those that mistakenly choose the zoner tag thinking they'll be immune from pirates.

To blame ALL zoners for the mistakes of people who are most likely new to the game and the multitudes of role play parameters involved, and still keep your ability to dock at zoner bases, is ludicrous and makes you a hypocrite. You keep screaming for people to properly role play, time for you to step up to the plate and role play your chosen part properly.

EDIT: fixed my typos

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[pchwang]

Charlie, your logic, unfortunately, doesn't make sense. Sorry, mate. Time to go home and read a book.

As for those that target zoners, do you really RP that and put zoners red on your rep card? Do you deny yourself the ability to dock at a zoner base? DO YOU ROLE PLAY THE PART YOU CLAIM TO PLAY by denying yourself the benefits of zoner neutrality? Most likely not, so you're just as guilty as those that mistakenly choose the zoner tag thinking they'll be immune from pirates.

Um, of course. Why wouldn't we do that? Not doing that would be a sanctionable offense. People today get sanctioned every day for docking on bases that they shouldn't be docking on.

Don't believe me? Watch my SCRA in 4.85.

I completely agree with Sovereign's and Mal's posts.

Like I said before, the Zoners hold a tenuous grip over the power that they have. They can lose it very easily, but so long as they maintain the status quo, they will still retain their freedoms and power.

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[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<

Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?

[Unseelie]

I am also in full agreance with the Mal/Elgato/Sov block, in saying that the Zoners have been way overblown into something crazy. And that the movement to make everyone powerful...is retarded.

Also, I do think Bretonia Rules the Waves.
Just until Bretonia gets pwned by Kusari.

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[Gemini893]

I am also in full agreance with the Mal/Elgato/Sov block, in saying that the Zoners have been way overblown into something crazy. And that the movement to make everyone powerful...is retarded.

Also, I do think Bretonia Rules the Waves.
Just until Bretonia gets pwned by Kusari.

To an extent I do agree too, but think on these little tid bits:

• *Zoners are one of very few factions, if not the only faction without a gunboat.
  *Pirates, who are defined as outlaws barely getting by, have their own gunboats and capital ships. How do pirates afford these monstrous battleships?
  *You see pirates out every day (not NPC pirates, but players who are stretching role play quite a bit) using gunboats to pirate trade lanes. Aren't those ships supposed to be used to defend bases?
  

If all of you are right, that zoners have no business having capital ships, then let's get a lot more realistic and scale back the pirate factions that have become houses. >>> MY REFERENCE on calling pirate factions "houses" <<< It clearly lists Corsairs and Outcasts as being houses on the wiki. So HOW do pirate factions that aren't a house have the means to build anything bigger than a bomber? How is there a Rogue Gunboat?

Every single one of you complains about things getting out of hand, but would you like to see your own pirate faction capital ships get taken away from you? By your own arguments concerning "vanilla" it sure sounds like it. Everyone keeps screaming "OORP!!" while they or others in their own group break role play by pirating lanes with gunboats (just one example of many of pirates breaking role play). Seems to me that all they want is to have an easier time picking off traders and zoners without real fear of reprisal.

Ok, so Pirates are now pirating the trade lanes with Gunboats, which are meant to defend their space in case of invasion. What next? Shall we escalate further? how about next we see cruisers or bigger caps escorting traders so they have a real chance against gunboats? what then? This is a vicious circle and, quite honestly, started by pirates breaking role play.

NOTE: None of my posts had one thing to do concerning Wild / alien factions. They're something other than human and it should be unknown what they're capable of.

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[pchwang]

House doesn't = Capital ships, RogueCharlie. Your logic, again, is flawed.

There is no argument about RESOURCES what so ever.

The argument is about Necessity.

Lots of the ships that the Zoners currently have access to are not needed. That is why we're mentioning that. They're combat vessels. The zoners don't need combat vessels, save for a few to fend off the Nomads and the Wilde in the omicrons.

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[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: &lt;_&lt;

Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?

[Unseelie]

@ Rogue Charlie: I think pirates are perfectly capable of building capitalships. I just think the Houses (the four) are capable of building a whole lot more capital ships, which I think is represented by the NPC forces. That will be all.

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[Dusty Lens]

Dreygon, Sov and Mal nailed it right on their respective heads, I'd dare say.

Which is to say, I'm of the opinion that those arguments which don't reflect on those fellow's two cents is firmly mired in the realm of a gent atop a soapbox ranting about fleets of Jugs coming to overturn houses and everyone's being super polite to not mention that he has no pants on.

[jammi]

@Noob3t: I have one, fully IFFed and IDed Zoner, and I still stand behind Sovereign, Dreygon and Dennis Jameson 100%. They've represented my feelings on the Zoners perfectly, as a player who's played as one and as a player who tends to meet them alot.

EDIT: And yes, I posted on page 10 without realising there was a page 11.

+1 phail

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[McNeo]

In my view, Zoners are not that powerful, and they aren't organised, hence they have little grip on that power. Their military fleet in NPC/Rumour terms, if they by some miracle managed to gather it all in one spot, would be smaller then the fleets of the Hessians and the Liberty Rogues, and probably about on par with the Dragons, except the Zoners would be poorly trained and organised.

Zoners shouldn't be disregarded however. Their main weapon is their purchase and sale of any and all goods, allowing many unlawful factions to live much more comfortably than they should (that list includes Corsairs, Unioners, Xenos etc), which outweighs the dislike of those factions for enterprising businessmen charging premium prices. They aren't key to the survival of any of the factions they barter with though, as most of those factions were getting along okay before the Zoners showed up.

Something I do think, however, is that any military activity from the Zoners should be purely defensive. I never agree with Zoners attacking any faction because they percieve a threat. Their only military actions should be reactive, not proactive.

Zoners also aren't filthy rich. If you want filthy rich, look on Planet New London. Apparently, even the most impoverished citizen is comfortably middle class on that planet. Serious money is made with stocks and shares, not trade. Unfortunately, the idea of stocks and shares is one that was tried, but failed quickly. As traders deal in millions of credits per shipment of goods, retailers here in the real world do so too. Compared to currency investors and the purchase and sales of shares, that kind of cash is pretty meagre. The only ones who are filty rich are the select few in the four main houses.

[Dennis Jameson]

Sovereign, Dreygon and Dennis Jameson, do you have Zoner characters?

The Doc does indeed have a zoner character, but i wouldn't want to reveal his identity since he frequents corsair space quite a bit and certain parties might wish to make life sour for me if they did, indeed, know that it was me. ;)

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