the Zoners

[sovereign]

Also, I don't really get where people are thinking that the Golden Chrysanthemums are a military power.

Really? What about the gorram planet you're giving them that can grow cardamine? Or was that canned?

They're about on a par with the Blood Dragons, only they have considerably more funding from selling cardamine, which I don't think is unreasonable to consider.

Recall also how much money people enter the GC with as opposed to the BD. Women in Kusari have no money. Not 'dirt poor', they actually have *no* money. BD have at least pocket change on them, which Kusari women, err, don't. Also, the GMG fund the BD heavily... I know IC funds the GC a bit, but they also fund the Bundschuh, the Xenos (or was that Universal Shipping?) and quite possibly the Mollies... and they aren't all that rich considering how much the houses screwed them. Plus, cardamine addiction in Kusari, as I understood it, is not nearly as prevalent as it is in even Rheinland- and where it is, a fair number of those are in the GC. Kusari propaganda is very effective and enforced by convenient accidents. They are by no means rich. Neither are the other underdog factions. Possibly, because they're supposed to be underdogs.

Also recall that they don't generate it (unless that planet was serious) and have to buy it from the Outcasts- it isn't free profit by any means. Profit, but not exorbitant profit; that's the Outcasts.

They also don't really use anything above the level of fighters/bombers (I think at present the official [GC] group owns a single gunboat, which isn't even active). Anyway, I won't go into that further here, but since others had kept mentioning it I thought i'd make a mention of it.

Perhaps you should all, as others have said, just wait and see what 4.85 brings (although I still think it should be called version 5 XD). All groups are evolving from their original ideas, such is the passage of time. To be honest, I would say no pirate groups should have anything bigger than a gunboat, and most pirate groups shouldn't even have access to even gunboats. On the same token, if we were to do that, Zoners shouldn't get any battleships or cruisers or gunboats, although I would make a couple of Zoner Juggernauts dockable bases and stick them outside Gran Canaria and other key Zoner locations maybe. Junkers shouldn't have battleships. They shouldn't even have cruisers. But how boring would it be, if nothing ever changed at all.

But times change. People get richer and more powerful. More space gets opened up for exploration and exploitation. The tech levels and manufacturing capabilities of groups increase. Just the way it goes.

There's a difference between "evolving from their original ideas" and the game equivalent of this. Specifically, 'evolve' does not mean 'everyone doubles their cash every year, despite how before the sequels/patches began this took something like 50 years.

I am in no way advocating the Zoners being nerfed into oblivion, but giving any faction some of the crazy stuff that has been projected is equally outlandish. Underdogs lose their appeal when they get frikken planets. I like Mal's comparison to bankers; they rely on others for defense because they can't possibly defend themselves, but even still fall to a serious assault; said assault never comes because even though they are rich for the plundering, the diplomatic or civil backlash of doing it outweighs the monetary benefit. They are also loved by the little men because they basically are a-okay with giving loans without checking their criminal record. Not strong, and not even supremely important when things hit the fan, but present, distinct, and quietly counting their ever-growing pile of cash. In other words, a realistically normal faction as opposed to Yet Another Crazy Superpower (YACS).

TL;DR

RP does not mean that everyone gets their hands on big guns.

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[Unseelie]

Perhaps you should all, as others have said, just wait and see what 4.85 brings

And then wait another year+ for a possible fix?

This is something that really rather freaks me out. Lets sit complacently while our game is quite possibly drasticly altered, not only by the addition of a whole 'nother freaking superhouse...But super zoners, GC planets....and other things that I'm not even allowed to mention here....

I think its important to try and say, "oh, wait a minute...I rather like the current balance of power, it shouldn't get retconned to hell and back"
But nobody's listening to me.

I rather like the game I'm playing in 84. I'm not sure I want it to change all that much...

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[Kuraine]

Um, i'll just want to point out that the GC planet is not dockable and not really seriously inhabited. Its an RP gimmick, nothing else. So it can't really be called a "GC planet", not considering there are Outcasts and Blood Dragons on it also. Its an in-RP experiment. I think you're getting a bit upset over what is essentially not really a big deal, to be honest. Its hardly like they're a superpower at all. Cardamine addiction was quite heavy among the Kusari youth even in 800 A.S (vanilla lore) and it is now 817 A.S. We're not stuck in vanilla, things do change. Otherwise what the hell is the point of doing anything at all? I might as well just leave disco if things are going to remain static with every single faction indefinitely.

The Kusari government and navy is massively tied up in a war with the Bretonians, and they are winning. This leaves the GC and BD to consolidate and grow exponentially while they have loads of breathing space and less pressure. It also allows the Hogosha and Farmers Alliance to take advantage of the considerably lower naval presence to build a couple more bases, and Samura is taking advantage of the lower lawful presence in order to step up its funding and attacks on its enemies. The GMG is doing the same. The same thing is happening in Rheinland and Bretonia, and even Liberty to some extent.

Other factions are being weakened, such as Bretonia, Rheinland, the Junkers to some extent, the Outcasts more than the Corsairs are being weakened somewhat, the Lane Hackers are pretty much the same. The Hessians, while their territory has expanded, are struggling in the face of Wild and Corsair assaults to some degree. The Corsairs also are struggling from Nomad and Wild attacks (there are rumours of a treaty in the works between Hessians and Corsairs in order to fend off the Wild).

And what the hell is TL;DR? It's really annoying in that big bolded font and means nothing seemingly.

The [GC] gunboat is indeed active, or at least was logged in tonight. I saw'rd the Lady wif my own eyes!

Hmm, guess she's gone active again. Oh well, fair enough. But either way, its the only gunboat we have. Hardly a major power. This is supposed to be about Zoners though. But hey, i'm all for removing all the destroyers/cruisers/battlecruisers/battleships/dreadnaughts that the Corsairs and Outcasts have! It would make sense in RP! Neither of them would possibly have the resources or power to make them. The Outcasts *might* be able to afford one or two possibly. But i'd make them dockable bases around Alpha and Beta. Then remove the Zoner battleships and cruisers too. And remove the Hessian cruisers. In fact, no pirates should, by rights, have anything bigger than a gunboat. Same goes for the bounty hunters guild. Hell, let's get rid of Order battleships too, because they sure as hell wouldn't really be able to build loads of them, even with Corsair/covert liberty funding etc. Let's prevent the Junkers from using anything but fighters/bombers, because they wouldn't use anything bigger. Let's prevent the GMG from using anything bigger than fighters or bombers too. Hell, IMG too. Why the IMG'd need a battlecruiser is beyond me. But i'm sure players wouldn't want that, would they? So how about we cut out all the bitching?

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Kuraine (Zoner tagged Trader)
Ravenholm (Zoner tagged Zoner Destroyer)
Bill Mason[Arms.Dealer] (Zoner tagged Arms Dealer)
LR-Drax (Liberty Rogue tagged Cruiser)
LR-Dravis (Liberty Rogue tagged VHF)
[RHA]Wilhelm.Wettin (Red Hessian tagged VHF)
[GC]-Ai.Takeda (Golden Chrysanthemum tagged VHF/Bomber)

[me_b_kevin]

Um, i'll just want to point out that the GC planet is not dockable and not really seriously inhabited. Its an RP gimmick, nothing else. So it can't really be called a "GC planet", not considering there are Outcasts and Blood Dragons on it also. Its an in-RP experiment. I think you're getting a bit upset over what is essentially not really a big deal, to be honest. Its hardly like they're a superpower at all. Cardamine addiction was quite heavy among the Kusari youth even in 800 A.S (vanilla lore) and it is now 817 A.S. We're not stuck in vanilla, things do change. Otherwise what the hell is the point of doing anything at all? I might as well just leave disco if things are going to remain static with every single faction indefinitely.

The Kusari government and navy is massively tied up in a war with the Bretonians, and they are winning. This leaves the GC and BD to consolidate and grow exponentially while they have loads of breathing space and less pressure. It also allows the Hogosha and Farmers Alliance to take advantage of the considerably lower naval presence to build a couple more bases, and Samura is taking advantage of the lower lawful presence in order to step up its funding and attacks on its enemies. The GMG is doing the same. The same thing is happening in Rheinland and Bretonia, and even Liberty to some extent.

Other factions are being weakened, such as Bretonia, Rheinland, the Junkers to some extent, the Outcasts more than the Corsairs are being weakened somewhat, the Lane Hackers are pretty much the same. The Hessians, while their territory has expanded, are struggling in the face of Wild and Corsair assaults to some degree. The Corsairs also are struggling from Nomad and Wild attacks (there are rumours of a treaty in the works between Hessians and Corsairs in order to fend off the Wild).

ok that makes me feel better, from what i kept hearing. every factions was growing in power exponentially. i agree with the reasons you put forth in the growing in power of certain factions at the weakening of others and vice versa.

that being said, i would imagine the Zoners would be weakened somewhat from the constant attacks of the nomads right? at least in certain parts of Sirius. on one side they would seem to flourish while on the other the nomads pose a significant threat. that is unless I'm over exaggerating the power of the nomads.

does that make sense?

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Mon'Star the Red- Rated "R" : http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3224
Aboard the Necrosis- Rated "E": http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3313

[Dusty Lens]

But will it be dockable in 86.

[Kuraine]

But will it be dockable in 86.

What will be dockable? If you're referring to the GC planet, then no it will never be made dockable, ever. If you're referring to something else, then please elaborate.

ok that makes me feel better, from what i kept hearing. every factions was growing in power exponentially. i agree with the reasons you put forth in the growing in power of certain factions at the weakening of others and vice versa.

that being said, i would imagine the Zoners would be weakened somewhat from the constant attacks of the nomads right? at least in certain parts of Sirius. on one side they would seem to flourish while on the other the nomads pose a significant threat. that is unless I'm over exaggerating the power of the nomads.

does that make sense?

Certainly does. Naturally, Freeport 11 would be under a lot of nomad attacks, although I believe steps are being taken in regards to this for 4.85 but i'm not 100% sure what currently.

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Kuraine (Zoner tagged Trader)
Ravenholm (Zoner tagged Zoner Destroyer)
Bill Mason[Arms.Dealer] (Zoner tagged Arms Dealer)
LR-Drax (Liberty Rogue tagged Cruiser)
LR-Dravis (Liberty Rogue tagged VHF)
[RHA]Wilhelm.Wettin (Red Hessian tagged VHF)
[GC]-Ai.Takeda (Golden Chrysanthemum tagged VHF/Bomber)

[Dennis Jameson]

My guess would be turning it into a wreck. And yes, i am quite serious. How can a freeport be out there without getting space jellies all over it?

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Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici

10/6

[Blodo]

The BHG and Order presence in the system? The BHG seem to be growing in Omicron Delta, especially since now they get their own base there.

[Jinx]

freeport 11 is heavily protected. - in contrast to most other freeports, freeport 11 has dedicated fleets protecting it ( including the BHG core, the JG, numerous individuals and the order ).

but delta changes slightly - reflectig the exposed status of FP11 and the affected factions.

besides - except for the initial attacks on the station, the keepers have no made any serious attempt ( that is a non random attack, but a planned event that was talked about and over with the affected participants of all factions involved ) to proceed in delta.

or in other words - freeport 11 has not seen any significant attack lately that is worth including into a global change.

come to that - freeport 9 has not been the focus of attention either ( ever since the AW are gone, no one cares much for theta anymore ) - GC has been more the focus of attention than any other zoner controlled base.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[NerdRage]

Also, with the Deuterium trade from Gran Canaria, which is a habitated planet, showing cooperation with Corsairs...

That really doesn't ring true to me. That Deuterium is supplying Kusari warfleets, for instance, collaborating with their war effort, and also collaborating with known pirates.

It's really asking for a Bretonian invasion, or at least a strike. I doubt even the Corsairs would be able to protect it, what with Hessian expansion preventing the Fes to advance to 49. The Zoners wouldn't put up much resistance, as they appear to be the masters of soft power, but lacking in hard power.

OOOH!

lets have an HUGE RP event, where heaps of Bretonian forces and heaps of Zoners fight it out near Gran Canaria, it wil be AWESOME!


in my opinion, i think zoners are always 'those guys', the people who stick to the background who are always glad to give you a hand. With a tight web of locations and bases, they try to keep neutrality so they can conduct all their research, in my opinion they are a passive scientific/research faction.


With the GC cardamine, wouldent that spark a deadly competition with the outcasts? if cryer is there sworn enemy for trying to make a safe substitute, so at least a fully fledged war for trying to reak their monopoly?

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