To my fellow Outcasts

[n00bl3t]

I indulged in hyperbole, sue me. Logical train of thought that large capital fleets leads to massacres leads to forum whining leads to flames, leads to everyone not having fun and leaving the community.

Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, eh? Who's having fun when capital ships waltz through Gamma or Alpha? Obviously the capital ships, but nobody else really is.

Apathy is rather hard to combat. People that just don't care about RP or fairplay will keep on doing what they're doing, and where are we then? Sitting on our hands and waiting for them to do something sanction-worthy?

Surprisingly, I did not. Yet the weight of what could happen/did happen on each side was almost equal.

Apathy?

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Jihadjoe]

Surprisingly, I did not. Yet the weight of what could happen/did happen on each side was almost equal.

Can you explain your post n00bl3t? I think I have understood what you're saying here, but I'd like a little clarification.

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[n00bl3t]

Can you explain your post n00bl3t? I think I have understood what you're saying here, but I'd like a little clarification.

It refers to the hypothetical situations we both listed would happen if each course of action was taken, and how Zapp was exaggerating and I was not.

Edit: Off for now. Hopefully, will post later to replies.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Jihadjoe]

While Zach may have been exagerating, his analysis is infact rather good.

When people cease to have fun then people leave. When a server has no players then there is no community. Getting permenantly raided by cap fleets is no fun. There are people in position to prevent that from happening.

Is this a counter protest to a protest? If so, is the counter protest protesting againt my protest about overkill? If it isn't then it's irrelevant to this thread, and if it is... well... What can I say?

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[Zapp]

Surprisingly, I did not. Yet the weight of what could happen/did happen on each side was almost equal.

Apathy?

Indeed, I am apathetic in certain areas, and I know just how hard it is to motivate people that have that particular quality.

The weight is equal, each course has its obvious drawbacks. The IDs aren't going to change much, either, just slow them down from getting the ship. If faction intervention causes problem, but the factions adopting a laissez faire policy causes problems as well, then where is the solution? Relying on humanity's inherent good nature? I'm sorry, I'm not seeing it in these situations. A course of action has to be taken, and it seems to me the path with less drawbacks would be the factions taking a more active interest in who flies their capital ships.

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[Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever]

This happened a few months ago with the order. I belive an osiris and two corsair cruisers just decided

HEY LETS GO RAID LIBERTY!

I think that type of desicison should be left to like high up ppl like Tenabras or Aki or Dboy.

[n00bl3t]

While Zach may have been exagerating, his analysis is infact rather good.

When people cease to have fun then people leave. When a server has no players then there is no community. Getting permenantly raided by cap fleets is no fun. There are people in position to prevent that from happening.

The people in question which you say will prevent this are in a position to abuse the power they are given. Considering the abuse we have seen in the past, I am against raising powers of faction leaders. On that note, people may say that these powers are that much of a power at all, however, the last time factions were given this much leeway more and more restrictions were put into place, compounding the powers that were held.

Indeed, I am apathetic in certain areas, and I know just how hard it is to motivate people that have that particular quality.

The weight is equal, each course has its obvious drawbacks. The IDs aren't going to change much, either, just slow them down from getting the ship. If faction intervention causes problem, but the factions adopting a laissez faire policy causes problems as well, then where is the solution? Relying on humanity's inherent good nature? I'm sorry, I'm not seeing it in these situations. A course of action has to be taken, and it seems to me the path with less drawbacks would be the factions taking a more active interest in who flies their capital ships.

Well, coming from a person who has suffered from faction intervention perhaps you can see why I am against giving certain people the right to dictate things with no-one to watch over them or how they use their newfound power, which can be heavily abused. (Do not bring quis custodiet ipsos custodes into this, final is Igiss, but for this the Admin team will suffice.)

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Jihadjoe]

The people in question which you say will prevent this are in a position to abuse the power they are given. Considering the abuse we have seen in the past, I am against raising powers of faction leaders. On that note, people may say that these powers are that much of a power at all, however, the last time factions were given this much leeway more and more restrictions were put into place, compounding the powers that were held.

And who with power isn't in a position to abuse it? Are you seriously suggesting that we remove all power from everyone?

However my initial post is about consideration for your fellow player. -Not- in the spirit of "MY SHIPS!!! THOU SHALT NOT FLY!". If action is taken in the spirit of consideration, then sure said action would be positive, no?

To add on top of that the fact that no action has yet been taken besides creating a chat between the Corsair and OC leaders to smooth things over, I really think your arguement has no place here.

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[blubba]

I am at a loss to understand something. Can someone please clarify?

"The people in question which you say will prevent this are in a position to abuse the power they are given. Considering the abuse we have seen in the past, I am against raising powers of faction leaders".

You are suggesting the faction leaders have the power?
I am confused therefore by the complaint about which this thread is based. Is it the factions that the complaint is levelled at or the "fleets that include massive numbers of caps, no RP and a crappy attitude".

I think the later suggestion was not "if" the factions have the power but whether or not they should use it. It was not part of the original complaint which this thread, like so many others before it has seemed to have fallen into.
It seems to me that some people, rather than accepting someones complaint for what it is, are determined to argue, just for the sake of it. If the 'discussion' can be derailed into somewhere known to cause friction, so much the better. I am not aiming that last sentance at anyone in particular so please, no retorts. Besides, there'd be too many targets if I was!

I understand from the original post that it is in fact NOT the wanted course of action to involve your factions leaders but some kind of self-determination by the so-called offending parties that should be observed. Some co-operation, dialogue. Something....reasonable.

I sincerely wish that for once, a thread like this would be seen for what it is and not some excuse for an off topic row which detracts from what is generally, a fairly good point, put across quite well. So, for those with short memorys...


"I've been seeing a lot of things I don't like of late from a number of outcasts.

Mainly this is overkill and capspam. If we add ooc, pvpwhoring, cap missile spam and various other things we see the issue.

Remember that the people who play as corsairs are gunna be annoyed if you raid four times a day. Remember that if the corsairs oder the full cap fleet to dock, then you come in with four cruisers, they're gunna get pissed off.

Remember that the people you fight against in game are not people to annoy. They are people who are also trying to enjoy a game, they are people trying to play a game with you. Let them have fun. Engage in fun and fair fights, not stupid bullcrap excuses for fleets that include massive numbers of caps, no RP and a crappy attitude.

How about before you go on a major raid, you talk to one of the factionalised corsairs for two reasons.

A. To see if they mind.
B. To let them get a defence fleet together.


Four raids a day is -not- cool.


I'm angry about this kind of thing as it makes my time on my OC character hard. You raiding four times a day means that by the time I ask the corsairs if they want a little rumble somewhere, they all go "No, we had to fend off four OC cap fleets today, can't be arsed". Sort it out. Have some consideration for the people you're raiding, and act like humans."

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[n00bl3t]

And who with power isn't in a position to abuse it? Are you seriously suggesting that we remove all power from everyone?

However my initial post is about consideration for your fellow player. -Not- in the spirit of "MY SHIPS!!! THOU SHALT NOT FLY!". If action is taken in the spirit of consideration, then sure said action would be positive, no?

To add on top of that the fact that no action has yet been taken besides creating a chat between the Corsair and OC leaders to smooth things over, I really think your arguement has no place here.

Read response to Zapp for your first paragraph.

The action may be taken as positive or negative depending on whose eyes it is viewed from. Frankly, the rant about four raids/independent players gone wild serves to connect with others, so they will support any hypothetical restrictions by playing on their emotions. (Linking independents to "BH capwhores" which a significant populace dislike, as well as links to power-trading, etc.)

Frankly, I predicted that restrictions was where this was headed back on the first page, or perhaps it was the goal of your rant? (We shall let time pass and see.)

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.