New Order/BlackSquadron Role Play Rules

[Zelot]

Uns, I have to say, I have this feeling that you are just trying to cause trouble here, for whatever reason, whether is be personal or that you just feel like kicking the anthill. It is you of all people who I would have thought would be siding with Wolfpack here, and I have to say I am surprised to see you are not. It was you who brought down the faction hammer on Aku, causing one of the biggest Faction/Indy arguments in a long long time. Have you changed you feelings that drastically in the last few months Uns? Care to send out an apology to Aku at this point? Care to tell him how you have had a change of heart and now you think it's wrong for factions to dictate RP to indies? I am sure we can find his email somewhere, I am sure he would love to hear your apology. That would be neat, but I doubt that is where your motivations are, It's my opinion that you are trying to stir up trouble here, maybe your bored, maybe you dont like Wolfpack or the Order, or maybe you have had a change of heart, but it is strange to see such contradictory statements to the ones you have made in the past.

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[Drake]

Having said that, I do personally disagree with the ingame "RP" dictating Liberty and the Order being at war and I think its not the best thing for it. I'm also completely opposed to the Order-Corsair alliance for similar reasons. But until such a time as it gets changed, then that's the way it is and you deal with it.

I must say I completely agree with this statement, and always have. I'm sure I've expressed it before, a long time ago. Order could survive perfectly well with only direct alliance to the Zoners, and I can't see the heroic nomad-hunters allying with the rather nastily vicious Corsairs. And Liberty and the Order had made nice at the end of the SP campaign.

Anyway, back to the topic: If the Bs and Order Council have no authority over any Order characters who don't agree to follow their authority, then this discussion has to be pretty much finished, isn't it? The original post implied (if you call flat out saying so 'implied') that there would be consequences for breaking Council decree's, which is what violated the faction/indie rules of separation. With allegiance to the Council being entirely voluntary, I don't see any further problems, even if said Council ends up being a Bs puppet (not saying it is or it will, though).

[Unseelie]

Just a single frame in time, Zelot.
The key, here, is that I suspect the indies are right. Akuma, I believed was wrong.
I, as an indie, created a faction, because I believed the current faction was wrong, and wanted to replace it.
Then, considering what that faction was doing to be mostly right, told Akuma he could shove it when he turned on me. Told Akuma he could take his BD financed Loyalist Dunkirk and shove it, not when I first learned of it, because, honestly, it acted ingame just like any other, but when he started attacking me.
Moreover, you might want to consider my positions on clans in general, rather than just my position in a single Indie/Faction debate.

Here, I'm curious. Curious, perhaps, because I'm bored. If I had anything horribly pressing to do, I wouldn't be spending my time checking forum boards about a game. I've no interest in stirring over an anthill, just in testing Wolfpack, whom I'm getting mixed messages from. I'm curious how he, who I don't know, will react to things. I'm testing him, because I legitimately want to know how this will affect me, not as an order player, but as a nomad. And, I really do want to know...why Wolf? So far as I'm concerned, Wolf is a complete unknown to a great many people. The Bs| are familiar with him...people who have been around since before Feb 07, may also be familiar with him.

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[MB52]

What's changed is that if folks want to attack the Liberty Navy they can, without being beaten by the Bs| for following what can be construed as canon RP.

Sorry but your view of cannon RP seems off... can you explain where in cannon we ever see the order attacking manhattan with capships and killing un-infested humans (who the order sworn to protect)...

Can we get a post please of what cannon RP is.. cause we have WAY too many different opinions/views.

Some see the order as blood thirsty terrorists

Others see them as the heros of mankind, who protect and not murder humans...

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I’ll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
Because it’s flag that I love
And a flag that I trust

[Tenacity]

Alright, frankly I dont give a damn who wants control, or if there's a council or not. This entire thing is a pain in the ass and I was dragged into it in the first place.

I think there is one issue here causing all of these problems - WHAT IS CANON?

That's the issue - there are NO definitions in game other than the who the ID states as friend and foe. Every single order player is left to either follow the past-player-established RP, or to say "**** it all" and do whatever they want within server rules, even if that means pvp whoring in a ship that is OORP for their character, though not enough to get them sanctioned.

So, here's my proposal: scrap this whole council idea. Form a temporary group consisting of ALL active order players, and take consensus votes on what is and isnt in rp for the order. We do this for every single restriction possibly conceivable for the faction (not black squadron, but THE ORDER as a whole) - until we have a complete guideline for what is and isnt canon RP.

Players who dont follow that guideline need to be sanctioned by admins for OORP behavior. Players who want to develop their own RP can do so as long as it doesnt break that basic guideline.

How's that sound? Tickle your berries enough or are we going to continue bitching about this for the next three months as incidents such as deisol's and bluntage's continue left and right?

Make a damn decision.

EDIT:

To elaborate, this needs to be done for every affiliation in the game. Make an entire forum dedicated to "canon RP guidelines" with posts for every single faction, and have people decide what is acceptable. Anything that goes against those acceptable guidelines is sanctionable.

There is too much ambiguity right now in the rules, players enforce what they think is RP and get shot down by the admins or by other players for being wrong - enough is enough.

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[Dusty Lens]

Igiss establishes RP cannon for factions on Discovery. For the rest of us, well, it's more like guidelines.

At this rate I'm hoping that Toledo falls into a black hole.

As for what Bluntage and his band of miscreants are doing, again, doesn't involve anyone but them. If they feed themselves enough rope they'll swing.

As to what the rest of you are doing, well, I imagine your pots will be boiling over soon enough if you spend any more time staring into theirs and ignoring your own.

Go peel some 'taters, skin a chicken or two and brew up some Bs|/participants fun time. Maybe when that part of the world is crackling again people will have a stronger foot to stand on in regards to telling others how they should behave.

As to all of the questions about what canon is in FL:

[Tenacity]

Igiss establishes RP cannon for factions on Discovery.

Apparently not, because I dont see a single post by him saying "This is how players should act for X faction"

Until we see something like that, there is no definition of canon RP except what the admins hold as their own opinions, and frankly I'm not leaving chances at being sanctioned up to what the admins think players should act like, especially if they dont play the faction in question themselves.

Until its posted publicly, there is no canon RP. You cannot say "this is the bottom guideline for your RP" AFTER sanctioning someone for going against it. This is not an obvious thing to 90% of the players on the server, yet the admins seem to expect everyone to know what THEY think is canon, instead of what is publicly and obviously posted for everyone to see.

Now, if nobody's going to write that up, then there really is zero ground for any action taken by the admins against OORP behavior other than inappropriate tag/ship/equipment/ID. Past that, there is nothing that tells players how they should act.

That's why all this crap is happening in the first place, because of differing opinions. If you want to have rules, they need to be based on a guide that everyone can see and follow, otherwise the rules have zero backing.

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[Orin]

We cannot have a big party of every faction player voting on how Igiss' mod's RP canon is decided. The Order is a confusing one, because they are far deeper a faction than most. One my say they are only fighting the Nomads, and defending themselves from the BHG and Liberty. Another may say that they still believe Liberty is infested, and this is why they are listed as hostile, hence they war with Liberty.

We have to go by what we have. We don't have much. The Order has Liberty as hostile.

Now, the Bs has taken a different road, one some might say is not canon. It very well could be canon, but no one can decide that. At this point, the Order is interpreted in different ways. You guys have a cease-fire with Liberty, I'd say that's different. Not bad different, but different.

So what we have are lots of different opinions on how the Order works. You guys take it one way, great. Others take it their way, just as great.

This is Igiss' world in the end. Players cannot make a vote and decide how his canon is going to work. Might make things confusing in some cases, but tough.

[Dusty Lens]

Oh, I misunderstood, I thought all of this crap was happening because some people are gesturing wildly, running around with their hands in the air and applying hyperbole to anything with a flat surface.

[Tenacity]

We cannot have a big party of every faction player voting on how Igiss' mod's RP canon is decided.

Then let him post and absolve the matter of any confusion. If it's his mod, where is the RP he wants us to follow? WHERE IS HE? Honestly, I know people have lives outside the game but I havent seen a post from Igiss in months, and the last one was only to give us a new map of the next mod version.

The problem we have here is hipocrisy. The admins sanction based on what they think is canon RP, what -they- think players should act like, but they sanction and ban players in the game for having their own opinions on RP.

If there is no public guide, you cant expect people to follow it. We're not psychics, we dont have any fricken idea what goes on in the admins heads concerning what is and isnt proper RP, so how the hell are we supposed to know when we're following it or not?

That is the entire root of the problems here lately - action is being taken against players for doing what they think is in RP, when there was absolutely nothing telling them "this is how you behave as a member of this faction, if you dont behave that way you get sanctioned/banned."

And on top of that, there's no accountability from either the players OR the admins when decisions like this are made.


Fact of the matter is, you cannot expect people to follow unwritten rules, so write the damn rules already. We have server rules that cover basic issues, pvp whoring, improper tag/id/ship/equipment, rules of engagement, etc. etc. so on and so forth - but not a single one of the relates to specific faction RP guidelines. There is too much room for error right now because there is too much room for personal opinion on the matter.

If the admins dont want to take action, if they dont want to find a way to establish a guideline for factions on what is and isnt proper RP, then they need to quit sanctioning players for RP violations (gear/equipment/etc. aside) ENTIRELY.

We have to go by what we have. We don't have much. The Order has Liberty as hostile.

And that is far too consistently used as an excuse to pvp whore. Players do not pay attention to their faction NPC's or RP established in the campaign, and without those they have no limitations other than "red iz ded!"

Now, the Bs has taken a different road, one some might say is not canon.

Until there is no room whatsoever to say "some", it isnt good enough. There needs to be set guidelines, as long as there are differing opinions within the loose guidelines of the server rules, there are going to be incidents like we've had lately, because players will disagree.

I'm sorry, and I know I'm going to offend a lot of people here when I say this, but... the majority of people cannot think for themselves, and they need to be spoon fed every step of the way or they'll end up choking or starving.

There can be no room for error, no room for dispute, because as long as there is then no sanction on one party or the other can be justified on RP terms alone.

You guys have a cease-fire with Liberty, I'd say that's different. Not bad different, but different.

We do not have a cease fire with liberty, there is no treaty, no alliance, nothing - this continually gets used against us regarding this whole dispute when it isnt true in the first place.

The ONLY restriction is attacks directly on new york. I dont give a rat's ass if you attack liberty, just DONT DO IT OUTSIDE OF ALASKA! how hard is that to follow? There is plenty of opportunity for pvp without going outside what MOST of us consider as canon RP for the order - and that is dont harm civilians when dealing with hostiles. I've said this time and again, but everyone refuses to listen to that simple peice of advice because they want to go tear up new york, the most populated and OORP-plagued location on the server, with more pvp and/or cap whoring.

When are people going to see the ****ing point of this conversation? The issue isnt that we're trying to control anyone, we're not stopping order players from fighting LN/LSF players, we're only asking that they quit adding to already-ridiculous server problems by staying out of ONE SYSTEM in this mod.

This is Igiss' world in the end. Players cannot make a vote and decide how his canon is going to work. Might make things confusing in some cases, but tough.

Then he needs to do it, or the sanctions need to stop. Simple as that, quit trying to sanction people for their opinion on how one should roleplay when there is no established norm for that player's affiliation.

Oh, I misunderstood, I thought all of this crap was happening because some people are gesturing wildly, running around with their hands in the air and applying hyperbole to anything with a flat surface.

Keep your avatar out of the conversation!

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