Discovery 4.81 features, bugs & suggestions

[Lt.Cmdr.Olsav]

Gunboats, at least the rogue gunboats, need upgraded hull armour, and needs more weapon mounts. too few players use fighters enough to make the gunboat useful, so a missile mount would be good .

back to the hul strenth problem, is that 1 hit from a destroyer or cruise and im near dead, also sitting duck to fighters if i use turret mode, so most of the time i use it as a big unweildy fighter or fly in loops to avoid dying, since it is too weak.

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RAHF.Lt.Karol.Olsav
fmr Lord Solar Admiral of the Helghast, fmr.RAHF-Olsav-[Cpt], fmr. {Helghast}(LSA-vhf)~Olsav, fmr.{Helghast}(LSA)~Olsav, aboard HCS. Kesselring

[Dab]

Olsav, I see fighters quite a bit. Wraiths use them, AW, Phantoms, sso| especially, and others.

About cruisers, yes they are underpowered, and it only takes one fighter to take it out. However the "without having to worry about" attitude isn't true. It takes skill to take out a cruiser. The RH cruiser is probably the second easiest for fighters to take out. Which is why it seems we beat you easily. In fact, its just that the ship makes a large target. Kusari Destroyer takes some doing to defeat, and is even difficult with two fighters. Needs some upgrading, yes, but not much.. They aren't meant to fight fighters. They need anti-capship upgrade though. 2 should be able to beat a BS. (Liberty one can beat a BS on its own, but its the only one that can.)

Factions weapons - Yes, at least level 9, if not 10 guns for all factions. GMG have Sunblast Bs, Rheinland has two kinds, Outcasts and Corsairs have them, but they are the only one. It doesn't please me to fly around as a Bundschuh with Corsair weapons. I'd like to have level 9-10 Lugers, not Salamancas there. Also, it wouldn't hurt if you made shield busters for alot of different factions either, seeing as without them or inferno, you have no hope of destroying the shield of anything larger than a bomber. Corsairs would have too big an advantage, over even other fighters, if no one else has them.

BRs, Infernos, and the like. Marauder, don't complain about them. Its not too far a stretch to think that someone would find a way to design those in the FL universe. And surely all other factions are going to grab the designs as fast as possible. Thats why its sold at many places.

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[Korrd]

Weapons.

We need to be able to have characters RP as a faction and be able to use that factions weapons against ANY target, be it NPC or player.

At the moment everyone uses codename, nomad, chainguns and corsair shield-busters because "the weapons, of the faction I'm aligned to, suck" the only exceptions are the outcasts and corsairs.

If you use similar loadouts as the NPCs do you can only kill NPC transports, freighters and fighters, you'll get creamed by anything bigger and as for taking on any player ship, thats suicide.
(...)

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I agree. We need weapons with the same fire power in every NPC faction. That way we get a more spread use of all weapons.

I also think that NPC BS should have shields. They are like eye-candy toys right now. They are there just to scare newbs and entertain more experienced pilots.

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[marauder]

(Liberty one can beat a BS on its own, but its the only one that can.)

No it can't. It needs another cruiser or a BS to distract it's target before even attempting to take out a BS.

Factions weapons - Yes, at least level 9, if not 10 guns for all factions. GMG have Sunblast Bs, Rheinland has two kinds, Outcasts and Corsairs have them, but they are the only one. It doesn't please me to fly around as a Bundschuh with Corsair weapons. I'd like to have level 9-10 Lugers, not Salamancas there. Also, it wouldn't hurt if you made shield busters for alot of different factions either, seeing as without them or inferno, you have no hope of destroying the shield of anything larger than a bomber. Corsairs would have too big an advantage, over even other fighters, if no one else has them.

So what are the civilian shield busters then?

Yes, they only go upto class 8 and do about the same damage as the class 7 corsair weapons, but they still work.

The manta that got your wraith character in frankfurt a while ago used the advanced debilitors, which are civilian shield-busters.

Actually the corsair don't have much of any advantage at all, the titan is still out-manouvered by most, if not all, the other HFs and VHFs currently being used.

As for all factions getting class 9 weapons, why do you think that only a few factions have a class 9 gun available?

Rhienland only has 2 now because igiss added the hornviper mk2, the outcasts and the corsairs (the biggest and most powerful factions in vanilla FL) were the only groups with two class 9 guns.

Plus just looking at the stats of a gun is pointless, try them, it's the best and only way to find out for sure if they're any good.

Besides which the class 8 brunschuh guns are practically identical to the outcast class 8 guns, and you can still rip a VHF in half with a LF fitted with class 8 outcast guns.

Nomad guns are excellant for energy usage and damage, both the blasters and cannons, so they both need to be altered so that they drop with alot less frequency.

Players are relying on high-damage guns and agile/heavily-armoured ships way too much, a player in an LF has to be an excellant pilot just to fight a VHF without dying in the first couple of minutes.

Especially as most players have their fighters setup to do enough damage to drop the shields of and then cripple a BS.

BRs, Infernos, and the like. Its not too far a stretch to think that someone would find a way to design those in the FL universe. And surely all other factions are going to grab the designs as fast as possible. Thats why its sold at many places.

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My point was that if the capship weapons did the damage most of us think they should do the infernos and Battlerazors wouldn't be needed.

Plus you also ignored what I was saying, I said you don't see many players using the house and basic turrets, but you always see players using the 'special' turrets.

[Korrd]

The problem is that vanilla FL was designed on a way that increases the difficulty not as the player levels up, but as the player goes further of NY. The further you are from NY, the more powerful stuff is.
That way the player can advance through SP and face enemies of comparable power.

The mod should depart of this model. All houses should have their weps, ships and stuff rebalanced. Having ships with a hull of 1300 is nonsense nowadays, as that ship cannot face most of the NPC out there. Look at current low level weps. Class 1 weps do damage in the single digit range O_o.
I don't know if I'm explaining myself correctly, but what we should do is to make the mod more realistic.
Ships should be fully configurable. weapons power core, thruster speed, maneuvering thrusters, all. That way we can make any ship a top of the line ship instead of using all the same 5-6 fighters.
All lower level weapons should be cranked (word?) up, so we have more variety of weapons to choose from.
Ships should have a base hull value, power core, thruster, speed, and then upgraded from there.

Also, battleships should have its firing arcs corrected. You can actually fire turrets through the hull of your ship. The problem is that having firing arcs corrected will make BS a lot less powerful because they lack the turrets to cover with significant fire power all the sides. I was last night in omicron delta, mapping hard points and doing some research and testing in order to place the weapons of my battleship in an order that better covers all the sides of the ship, and realized this problem. The ship can defend itself pretty well right now, but if firing arcs were fixed, it would be unable to concentrate a worthy amount of firepower on a point because it lacks the turrets to do so.

And also, the corsair battleship turrets have no accuracy at all. You cant hit with them anything smaller than a gunboat. So they are useless for their primary purpose of defeating a fighter.

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(If you find any mistake in my English, please let me know via a PM)
(Really, I speak terrible English, so please, tell me if I make mistakes. I'd like to improve it a bit )

[McNeo]

A point needs to be made about the cruisers (or at least the BHG one). I cannot defeat a fighter in one of them, but i can take destroyers and most non NPC bs' easily in one. Its not as hard as it sounds, and if i was in a liberty cruiser... *drools*.

The faction weps which are lvl 9 and 10 should be sold on the guard bases imho if they are implemented in a future version of the mod.

I agree to a certain extent with the sheilds. Nomad bs should not have sheilds though as none of their NPC's do.

New Idea - reject if you please - I think that each capital ship should have its own sheild, made to suit the style of the ship, and reflect its hitbox and maneuverability.

So for instance the Osiris would have a 50k or more lower sheild than the corsair dreadnought However, the regen rate on an Osiris would be slightly higher than that on a corsair dreadnought or somthing along those lines.. I feel that this would add a new uniqueness about each battleship and give each one a specific tactic that needs to be learnt (ie how to pilot that battleship effectivly). I also think that the larger capital ships should have level 10 gun slots maximum 2 i think (and all the gunboat forward guns, consequently, would need to be locked down).

There should also be a tizona battleship/cruiser/gunboat turret for their respective capital ship imo. like a faster fireing version of the inferno which does less damage per shot than the inferno, so they do similar amounts of damage as their repective inferno gun per second.

[Dab]

I'll address McNeo's last suggestion first.

Eventually, people will just buy the ship with the best BS shield, then equip it on their favorite BS. WAY unbalanced and very hard to police proper shield equips.

People used BS shields on cruisers and gunboats until we started to threaten peole with bans because of it.


Class 9-10 weapons. I'd say class 9s as highest, leaving Nomads, and Codenames for class 10s only. I like Mcneo's idea of Guard base sold. That way it isn't available to just anyone. To get your proper equipment, you must have proper rep.

Level 9 weaps, sold on Guard base, firepower near, or equal to Salamancas and Krakens (for balance). Also maybe for sale on that faction's main base (Zoners, FP9).

Perhaps a level 9 copy of the Debilitator?


If we fix the hardpoints, we will need a drastic upgrade in turret firepower. But I still agree with Korrd in that it should be fixed. Because the ones capable of firing through themselves now have a big advantage over capships that can't.

Destroyers/Cruisers need an upgrade in anti-capship firepower. They should be weak to fighters, as they were never meant to fight them (hence why they are always escorted by GBs and fighters), but two should be able to take out a BS with skill.

Upgrading all ships.:

Could be done, but the siingle player would need to retain the ships from SP. Either that, or we will have to scrap SP all together. Though I would rather scrap it and have all houses equal and ships equal.

That will, definitely make things harder for new players though..

Upgradable ships, definitely.

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[romer]

I could be wrong here, but I believe there's no IMG guard. I mean, the base is there and so are the weapons platforms. There's plenty of IMG fighters flying around in nicely tricked out Eagles, but when scanned it shows IMG pilot...not Guard pilot. So the IMG guard will not show up on the rep list. I flew through the system twice in different chars. One nuetral so I could dock with the base (nothing on the rep list) and one hostile, letting the Eagles nibble my ship to bits (still nothing on the rep list).

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[McNeo]

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Eventually, people will just buy the ship with the best BS shield, then equip it on their favorite BS. WAY unbalanced and very hard to police proper shield equips.

People used BS shields on cruisers and gunboats until we started to threaten peole with bans because of it.

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I forgot to mention that the sheilds would be locked for capital ships.

About the fireing arcs. That is what gives the bounty hunter battleship the edge over most others. It is quite small, yet can fire all of its guns up, infernos on top bank 45 degrees down, and the solaris chainguns only lose a maximum of 2 out of the 8 i have equiped at ANY angle. I must admit, that these BH ships are turning out to be quite unbalanced.

The destroyer is small and agile, and the quad batteries, 2 of which are horizontal across the ship and 2 of which are vertical across the ship. This means that 6 out of 8 guns can be fired at one time. Cant fire through myself though, so its not a big, just a very decent cruiser with 8 guns. Some may call it unbalanced though.... :mellow: .

To correct the lacking in firepower, the only way i can see it being done is if multipliers can somhow be incorporated into this game like with the sheild types.

So fighter weapons do x1.00 vs fighters, x0.90 vs gunboats, x1.20 vs destroyers and x0.7 vs battleships (or somthing like that)

[Nightfall]

My two cents: It's all about balance, to make the stats of the ship not matter much.

Shield Busters: there's a reason why the Tizona does 1050 shield damage and the Adv. Debilitator 795. How maneuverable is the Titan? Also, the Cosairs have weaker Hull Busters (the Salamanca MK II does 489 Hull Damage) and less range and projectile speed (600).

Hull Busters: the Kraken 2 does 587 but it has greater range and projectile speed (the Firekiss MK II is even stronger, but lower refire and more energy consumption, refire 2.00, energy 203.75, range 500, speed 600, hull dmg 978, shield dmg 489), the GMG "Skyblast B" Photon Blaster (8.33, 61.12, 750, 600, 245, 122) has the greatest overall damage, but you should keep hitting the target more times, the Bundschuh "Luger" Tachyon Cannon Type C (3.03, 106.00, 700, 700, 424, 212) isn't much weaker than the Salamanca MK II, it's a Tachyon Cannon which doesn't work so well against Graviton shields, so goes for the Wyrm as well, that's why the Kraken seems to be so much better than the Wyrm. The "Buckshot" Bounty Hunter Particle Blaster (4.00, 122.25, 750, 750, 391, 196) is perfect in conjunction with the "Reaver Mk II" Laser Cannon (8.33, 61.12, 700, 650, 163, 82) and the agility/maneuverability of the Hammerhead and so on.

The same is with the battleships, an Osiris will always have the advantage of small size and high maneuverability over a lot of others.

Continued ranting:
True, the low level fighters/weapons are obsolete for advanced players but that is so because of the SP.

What makes things highly unbalanced are the MK II Light fighters, like the Slipstream -- with 6 class 9 mounts and a class 9 shield, so fast and small that they are virtually unhittable (!?spelling) and they have way too much firepower, and the new VHFs that generally are close to enough maneuverability to counter them which makes the Vanilla ones obsolete.

There are less things that need nerfing than cranking up the whole game. At least I understood the idea of Discovery is to keep to the original game and adding content. If it's not so, I understood it differently, my bad. By all means then, crank up the whole game, just make it balanced.

I'll put a pause to my ranting here. I generally agree with fixing the hardpoints on the battleships, but it has a lot of downsides too - one is they will need more turrets for better coverage... what to do?

Btw, Dab weren't you on the side of weakening the cruisers not long ago?

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If the stars should appear one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and adore and preserve for many generations the remembrance of the city of God? - from 'Nightfall' by I. Asimov
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