Taxing - by Houses

[Friday]

Or dont have the cops do it at all!

Have a special character called the TAXMAN...mwha-ha-ha!

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[Zeb Harley]

Having read the pros and contras I think taxing traders is a good idea. The problem that I see is the tax enforcement, since this has to work at all times 24/7.
If you position tax controllers on the borders of a system this will be very personal intensive. You don't have this much personal. Tax controlling and collecting is not much fun either, I guess, since you have to to stop ships while you have to calculate the supposed profit of the different amounts of cargo a transport is carrying. Imagine they have loaded about 20 different kinds of goods.

It is possible to raise a general tax anyway. Maybe this way:
for trading in a house system you have to buy a special tax certificate, a special item to carry around as is the battleship licence carried. So if you trade between Liberty and Bretonia, you would have to buy the Libertinian and the Bretonian tax licence and equip them in your ship. Everybody scanning the trader can now see if he paid the tax or is smuggling goods across the border. Tax should only apply to transports of a certain size and above to balance the appearance of players transport ships.

The problem how to get the taxes to the house governments must be solvable somehow.


This is just my personal opinion, I admit that other people may have another onel

Zebulon Harley, captain of Ageira Transport Engrela

[LA-384]

I don't like this idea. You say it's totally out of free will (not forced), so what do people gain from it? You can't say "i'm not gonna protect you, since you didn't pay tax", since that is the same as forcing people to pay you. So, you're gonna have to protect everyone, meaning that the people who do pay, get the same kind of protection as the people who don't pay. Since you're busy protecting people either way, the tax system would just be an easy way to obtain credits, for doing the things you're already supposed to do.

What i understood from the time i played freelancer is that either Liberty or Rheinland (or both), are very corrupt. So if people have to pay for their protection, it would be kind of mafia like; prices going up and up until the said person can't pay it anymore, and either the mafia kills him/her or the pirates do.

No, it's perfectly fine the way it is. Everyone works for their own credits.

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[Kambei]

Did you realized you are paying taxes when you are buying and selling cargo? Police and whole goverment structure is payd from that (in real life too).

There is no way how to stop and force someone to pay without destroying his ship... in real life those who dont pay taxes get penalty and if they continue, they are arested... this cant be done here. Only way how to do it is destroy/kill trader and that isnt called taxing but terorism, piracy, dictature in practice etc. etc. but generaly MURDER because every single kill is murder without court trial.

+ ftpwn lolol indies should ruin whole idea into 3 mil tax r dai;)

Practice in real life showed duty on comodity (tax from incoming stuff into state) as something what harm economy. That tax make comodity more expensive = less ppl can buy it = less stuff is created, less ppl have work = less ppl cand spendt money = less collected standard taxes.. More efective is increase standard tax for small % which havent negative impact on customers and cause in fact more collected money than from incomming duty.

In presence is incoming duty used for regulation of amount of incoming comodity coming into state, not for gaining money for state.

There is also another problem... there is no goverment in game. Police and Army have no right to create taxes or change them. It is not their job.

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[MarvinCZ]

You say it's totally out of free will (not forced), so what do people gain from it? You can't say "i'm not gonna protect you, since you didn't pay tax", since that is the same as forcing people to pay you. So, you're gonna have to protect everyone, meaning that the people who do pay, get the same kind of protection as the people who don't pay. Since you're busy protecting people either way, the tax system would just be an easy way to obtain credits, for doing the things you're already supposed to do.

I totally can say that! This is not the current practice, but if this was put into practice... You were given a choice, the choices have natural consequences. You don't pay for protection, you won't get it. That's called motivation.

The "not forcing" was meant as not killing those who refuse.

I am personally undecided on this issue. Some lawful forces would miss the people assigned to the borders for this.

[nankura]

I've got this wicked idea. Why couldn't the House governments levy taxes on trade?

Let's see ... a dictionary:

Tax (income tax)
-a tax on the net income of an individual or a business

Usually the citizens pay taxes to their authorities ... not to robbers, thieves and such. That's crime, piracy. Not paying taxes.

So, uhm ... just imagine ... the house Militaries would not have to trade so much to get their warships built.
House corporations surely have to pay taxes to maintain their business. It would be worth it to be in the Navy because you'd get an issued ship paid by the tax payers ... you're mean if you break it:)

In the end, the local authorities could also use the money gained from taxes to hire bounty hunters ... who will finally get something real to do ... hunt down criminals.

EDIT:

I do not want traders traders to be forced into anything (in this case paying money to some lawful factions). Pirates do that often enough already.
Everyone has the right to be dumb, stupid and ignorant. They'll have a hard time but we won't shoot them for it. Right?

From the game mechanics point of view, you would be "hiring" the lawful players to help you trade and protect you from pirates. It will create motivation, I hope.

To have a working economy, the cash must flow. (it does happen covertly, between one player's characters already - they trade for a capital ship. A capital ship which is alone, disorganized and subsequently blown up because of it)

What says you?

wow is everyone forgetting this is a game? yes ok theres RP, people come here to escape jobs taxs and real life, not to repeat it on a game.

Plus again another thing that encourages curroption from faction's, factions running around taxing people how much ? 20, 30 mill? for what, so they can build some cap ship's and leave the poor people they took money off in fighters? come on

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[Kambei]

You don't pay for protection, you won't get it. That's called motivation.

You are wrong, thats called coruption, discrimination or ransom;)As I said, every time you sell or buy something or even when you turn light on in your flat, you are paying tax to goverment. From that is payed goverment and all structures of state.

Whole this idea is bad... and imposible to implement because of lolwut indies.

Cheers.

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[MarvinCZ]

wow is everyone forgetting this is a game? yes ok theres RP, people come here to escape jobs taxs and real life, not to repeat it on a game.

Plus again another thing that encourages curroption from faction's, factions running around taxing people how much ? 20, 30 mill? for what, so they can build some cap ship's and leave the poor people they took money off in fighters? come on

What about reading more than the first post before you rant?

Small amounts - several % of income, or the 10x cargo size seemed reasonable, maybe enhanced by 2 or or more cargo classes (charging 10x the cargo size for a load of toxic waste wouldn't be good, but for luxury food it would be fine). This would still be much easier than calculating profits.

[nankura]

What about reading more than the first post before you rant?

Small amounts - several % of income, or the 10x cargo size seemed reasonable, maybe enhanced by 2 or or more cargo classes (charging 10x the cargo size for a load of toxic waste wouldn't be good, but for luxury food it would be fine). This would still be much easier than calculating profits.

maybe not right away but consider it, eventually the curroption will fit in, people will take it to far, theres simply to much power given to people, immature people, or mature people who can smartly think of a way to curropt it without been to noticed

Fact is, its power, and power is greed, and its a game

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[selsyn]

I have proposed something like this for 4.85, for Liberty.

Since they are in a war, the Government would levy a tax on all of the new trade routes that would open up. But it would be very low, less than 250k for an adv. train, for example.

I was going to use the Liberty Revenue Cutter Service be the tax collectors for liberty, as tax collection wouldent flow with the current duties of the LPI.

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