Cap vs. Fighter/Bomber weapons.

[El Nino]

I know it's already balanced. But I get sick seeing all capwhores writing here cause they think a bomber can not have any chance to blow a bigger ship. If they may not, why the hell did we made the bombers ?

This is absoluteley true, Taking on a cruiser in a bomber is impossible at best. If the cruiser pilot knows what he's doing then the bomber no mattter how good had no chance...

And when it comes down to even gunboats, I can quite often fend of 3 to sometimes even 4 bombers coming at me... at such odds it is not hard to flee, and at other times even win. What you however need is skill,...

Now imagine we made a ship that a novice player could fly well aganist bombers... what kind of hell would an experienced pilot make with that ship? What is great about Discovery balance, is how skill brings a lot to the table.

This is especialy true for fighters and bombers. It is quite obvious a cruiser will have a very hard time against a battleship. But no matter how unbalanced cruiser vs bomber weapons may seem to the original author, Cruisers can take out a battleship easier than bombers... Hell even gunboats can take out a battleship easier than bombers... And when fighthing against a cruiser i am rather in a gunboat than in a bomber. Likewise when taking out a battleship a cruiser does come in handy.

You do have to understand some basic principles when fighting in a capital ship. Your position is important, you have to know your exit strategy. If you don't you may find yourself in a combat that you cannot flee from. In a fighter that is not a problem, you can dodge and thrust away forever... In a cap you may not. So you have to think ahead.

Anyone interested in cap training contact me on my PM:D...

also some things were unbalanced and were fixed. That is still true. Taking out a cruiser with a gunboat no matter who pilots the cruiser, will never be balanced. So that was fixed.

In general powertrading to get your 200mil and buying a cruiser and some armor will not make you invincible... it will rather make you very very vulnerable. Start from the basics HF->VHF->Bomber->Gunboat->Cruiser->Battleship in this progression you will get your cap as a well rounded pilot. They don't give fleet ships to novice commanders. They give them to pilots with 20 or 30 years of experience. You might want to try some battle training before buying;)...

Anyhow I'll pay 10M credits to the first bomber that can solo one of my 2 caps...

I also agree with Jinx it is very foolish to compare cap and fighter weapons. Like bricks and logs... That's how it is, a heavy bomber can over a period of time dish out 7642 damage per second with it's supernova. A proper gunboat deals 3x more damage... cruisers even more... so that is 3821 shield damage per second... All you have to do is dodge every second SN and you are invincible in a gunboat, all you have to dodge in a cruiser is every fifth or so... in a Battleship, you can laugh at the bomber without dodging at all. He cannot move your shield with that SN no matter how hard the poor sucker tries to solo you. With most efficient guns a bomber can at best deal about 6.6k of shield damage.. but who can't hit a bomber that is laying down all his power on to you at 500 m? you have 1600m/s weapons for gods sake... So in theory caps are very hard to take out by a single bomber.

Let's take on 2 bombers... 7642 shield damage per second... now this is better, with a gunboat you have to dodge 3/4 of SN's and cruiser? 1/2 Even your battleship will take a beating unless you dodge about 1/4 SN's.

3 bombers you say? that's a pain to dodge 5/6 SN's Cruiser 2/3.. battleship 1/3 ...

You must know your limits, if your limit is 1 bomber, and you are in a cruiser, you will find yourself very soon at the invincible level for one bomber... even for two.. that's not to hard... Naturaly some bomber pilots will aim their SN's better at you. So make it first hard for them to fire, then hard for them to hit, and finaly make it hard for them to even start their run...

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Donate to the Poor Pilot's Fundation via Sirius Bank /givecash GreenHawk 1000000 now, and support poor pilots sirius wide!
Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk

Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.

[looqas]

<_<

Every one here who wants to make capships better are ... UNSKILLED !!!

What's making you will win a battle or not is not the weaponry (as everyone seems to look at) but the skill ! If you don't have skills and you want to be a pvp whore, train yourself in Connecticut or become a corsair pirating in Sigmas (there is a huge dragon/gmg/hessian/outcast fleet there) !

Also you can ask one of the best bomber who fight and killed me : [RHA]Arado aka [RHA]Wuerger or his mate [HT]Claus.Rheinhardt
I was killed by those 2 pilots in falcatas while I was in my gunboat with 350 bots / 60 bats ... They will confirm I was a really hard target (they were close to their death).
But ... here my weapon configuration :
1 * Cerberus turret
7 * Order turret
0 * Missile turret
0 * Razor turret
0 * Inferno turret

If you want to kill bombers in singular fight, GET THE SKILL FOR IT !

A flak turret will make me absolutely invulnerable to the bombers. I want fair fights, not crappy ones cause unskilled capwhores decided they are too weak with actual weaponry !

I hate the capwhores cause they think they have to be the strongest.

Also, for the ones thinking I'm concentrating my skills against bombers, I may tell you all I'm actually able to shot down any vessel up to cruisers, even I'm only a gunboat.
DO NOT UP THE POWER OF CAPS !
DROP OFF THAT MISSILES AND FLAK CANNON IDEA !
UP YOUR SKILLS !
Also, I hate capwhores. (that mean half of the server hehe)

To comment some what you said.

[RHA]Arado is indeed a good pilot. [RHA]Wuerger is a shared ship account so any number of RHA pilots has access to it. You yourself are also a good pilot. So skill definitely plays a big part out there. To me I'd rather take on a BH BC on my own than try my hand on against your ZweiHander or Jure's [OPG]whateverHawk. Both Corsair GBs that are supposedly very easy to hit.

I personally fly quite a bit of bombers so just observations here. Soloing anything is not as easy as many people make it sound. If you are flying GB or larger all you need to do is put pressure on the bomber pilot so that he will miss his snac. All it takes is miss one snac and the bomber pilot is in square one minus bats and bots he has used to keep the bomber afloat. If you are able to solo (no matter how good you are in your bomber) a GB or bigger then the cap flier is doing something wrong.

I'd say 3 is bare minimum in 4.84 to take on a battleship (given that BS captain can aim at all). And those 3 need to be able to stay alive pretty long. And it takes a while too for 3 bombers to bring down a BH BC while it is a relatively big target. SNACs are not instakill weapons. So you have plenty of time to try to bring down a bomber. Don't panic. Keep firing steadily, since all bomber pilots will evade the incoming fire thus not being able to close in on a SNAC firing distance so quickly. If you find you have hard time hitting the targetted bomber, switch targets. Almost certainly you will catch the other pilot by surprise and he might be the weakest pilot of the bomber wing.

Despite RHA's very hard efforts we still have not managed to bring down Camtheman's battleship Aachen. And we have tried to do that quite often. Battleships can soak up really impressive amounts of damage, so usually they can also try to disengage. The worst mistake any BS pilot can make is being too far out of dockable base. So like Jure said, think ahead about your position.

The Cruisers are IMO in the most vulnerable position. And it has nothing to do with weapon damage output against bombers. Cruisers weaponry is more than enough to bring down any number of bombers. But she can't since the cruiser can not soak up damage that much and does not have that much maneuverability to make the SNACs miss that often.

So people, if you are looking for a challenge to become the master cap flier get a cruiser and start climbing the pretty steep learning curve.

People love to compare stats with weapon damage etc, but they tend to forget that even now it takes 2-3 people working together to bring down 1 person in most cases. Making it requiring more actual persons to counter one person is just going to drive people fly bigger ships. Even more so since caps are grouping up nowadays. And what's the point in flying if there is no risk involved?

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Flying under radar.

[El Nino]

Everyone Read the upper post many times... Loogos gets my seal of approval. That's how it is. You can only solo a cap in a bomber if your opponent is doing something wrong.

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Donate to the Poor Pilot's Fundation via Sirius Bank /givecash GreenHawk 1000000 now, and support poor pilots sirius wide!
Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk

Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.

[johnpeter]

Incidentally, what ship class do you use the most?

Cruisers in SP
Transports in MP

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Come on! Be free!

[Jamo128]

I also agree with Jinx it is very foolish to compare cap and fighter weapons. Like bricks and logs... That's how it is, a heavy bomber can over a period of time dish out 7642 damage per second with it's supernova. A proper gunboat deals 3x more damage... cruisers even more... so that is 3821 shield damage per second... All you have to do is dodge every second SN and you are invincible in a gunboat, all you have to dodge in a cruiser is every fifth or so... in a Battleship, you can laugh at the bomber without dodging at all. He cannot move your shield with that SN no matter how hard the poor sucker tries to solo you. With most efficient guns a bomber can at best deal about 6.6k of shield damage.. but who can't hit a bomber that is laying down all his power on to you at 500 m? you have 1600m/s weapons for gods sake... So in theory caps are very hard to take out by a single bomber.

well u can sit at 2700m/s and fire the nova at the BS or BC

well thats not if they move but still the caps cant hit u form that far away

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[SevereTrinity]

That's the thing, they can't hit you, you can't hit them, you can dodge SN in a BS.

[Varyag]

IMO cruisers are the best class if well flown. They can dodge alright, have a pretty nice assortment of weapons and are fun to RP.

Bombers really do have no chance vs a cruiser unless the pilot is actually asleep or something, same goes for GB vs cruiser.

The only thing I am worried about is that dual nova slinging bomber the RM are about to get *shivers*.

Anyway, we are really arguing stats here for 4.84. From what I have heard, there are just mosterous changes so no point in really debating it till 4.85 comes out in 2010 sometime.

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"I looked up and all I saw was green death"

[El Nino]

"Bombers really do have no chance vs a cruiser unless the pilot is actually asleep or something, same goes for GB vs cruiser. "

Huahuahua:Ponly about 5% of cruisers i cannot solo in my GB. And those are Ku-desy... and every other Cruiser needs to have a specialised loadout to counter me. Basicly they then suck against other cruisers or BS's.... so;)Cruiser pilot has to work hard...

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Donate to the Poor Pilot's Fundation via Sirius Bank /givecash GreenHawk 1000000 now, and support poor pilots sirius wide!
Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk

Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.

[Kambei]

"Bombers really do have no chance vs a cruiser unless the pilot is actually asleep or something, same goes for GB vs cruiser. "

Huahuahua:Ponly about 5% of cruisers i cannot solo in my GB

dont tell me only 5% of cruisers know how to use turret view and damn notorical well known tricks such as dodgin with keyboard while thrusting in turret view and many others. + 95% of cruisers are blind and cant hit slow sair toolbox? Oh comon Jure;):laugh:

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[Varyag]

I would take that bet Jure!:DMine is setup for killing other Cruisers and larger.

Bring it, Corsair, maneating scum!

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"I looked up and all I saw was green death"