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swift · (This post was last modified: 01-19-2009, 05:51 PM by swift.)

Agreed with everything Tenacity said, except cake. >.> (Sorry if this was considered spam, I really did want to say I agree with his points)

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Tenacity · 01-19-2009, 05:56 PM,

' Wrote:Agreed with everything Tenacity said, except cake. >.> (Sorry if this was considered spam, I really did want to say I agree with his points)

I think general forum ettiquete is to refrain from agreeing with tenacity, and instead argue with me until your fingers bleed.

mjolnir · 01-19-2009, 06:03 PM,

1. Rules vs Admin notices
- new rules used to and sometimes still are being introduced after wishes of the community. Which is why I don't like any "admin notices" that basically come with extra rules that are at least controversial and mostly don't have wide-community support. Even more problematic is people getting sanctioned for these non-existing or half-written rules.

2. Sanctioning
- specially in the controversial cases, it's more than enough to issue a warning , similar approach should imo be used against first-time offenders and newbies to the community/roleplay.

first example that I found in the sanction thread, how it probably shouldn't be done:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28980

3. "ooRP" ships/loadouts/behaviour
- from a newbie's perspective it is really impossible to know what he can/can't use, new selling locations will help with this, but as long as the rule stays the same it will not be easy.

Therefore a list of allowed/not-allowed ships/ids or even equipment/id combinations should be finished.

===================
Sidenote: reading Laowai's post this seems to be "Admin feedback thread". Could it be renamed ?
Admins != Discovery

Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

Rudo · 01-19-2009, 06:20 PM,

Personally, I love the community here.

In terms of powers players have, I think the administration has taken the right step in allowing independent players a chance to play on the same ground as factions, even if some of these factions are committed to actions that run against what canon would suggest. This has ruffled a few feathers among the 'old guard', but in the end it works best for the server. I also believe that this is the first step toward the admins' policy of 'no preferential treatment' becoming inarguable.

In terms of sanctions, maybe a bit of interaction with the offender rather than concrete sentencing, and taking the high road in dealing with them is in order. Also, this is where an even hand is often the best solution to allegations of bias. I've seen 'veteran' players get away with much more in the presence of admins, than newcomers ever do in sanction reports

On sanction reports: I'm not sure the current method is 100% effective in eliminating possibilities of framing and bias. For instance, here's an example near and dear to my heart:

- A bomber and cruiser fight.
- The bomber takes damage and flees, but does not leave the system.
- The bomber pilot is chatty in the system, negatively so towards the cruiser.
- The cruiser pilot asks him to leave, perhaps insistently.
- The bomber pilot screens these communications and gets the cruiser tagged for OOC behavior.

The one punished is the one who did not make issue of the incident. Had the cruiser pilot taken screens of the encounter, the whole story would have been told. But this only creates a community of tattletales and half-truthers.

I can't think of a solution to this right now, aside from admins each looking inward and seeing if there is anything written between the lines of a report before meting out a sentence.

Aside from these little snags, everything is great. I like it here.

El Nino · 01-19-2009, 06:25 PM,

Allrighty... One thing i'd like to see is a new admin voting system... Admins are suppose to be representatives of the community. So we should hold votes reggularly say every 3 months, for each admin.

So we'd have a vote if admin got a no, he would loose his Voting rights on the admin team, he'd still do his regular work, but wouldn't decide on new rule changes... and such.

Or Perhaps every new rule change can be voted upon?

More community input... quite simple.

On a more personal level, i think admins are doing one heck of a job, but obviusly some people are not satisfied with that... and some things do feel a bit Off...

Ah and also factions should have more power. For example: Let's say LN says noone is allowed to fly their cruisers, then noone is allowed to. Or say Outcasts decide, noone is use Infernos... allright noone can. (except naturaly faction tag and id'd indies) Basicly factions had the rigth to restrict weapon and ship sales to other factions. And they would govern their systems, demand tax to be paid by any trader entering for example Bretonia, or whatever they choose to make up. They should be able to do. Unless the community is highly against it.

Indies should be allowed their personal roleplay, within faction's limits,... So factions could only limit outsiders.

:)I hope i made my ideas clear...

Donate to the Poor Pilot's Fundation via Sirius Bank /givecash GreenHawk 1000000 now, and support poor pilots sirius wide!
Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk

Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.

Kambei · (This post was last modified: 01-19-2009, 06:38 PM by Kambei.)

' Wrote:Sanctions. A very important part of keeping the order on the server agreed. But, guys...You have really blown it off the scale. Especially with no-braininess. I mean, I saw a sanction once where a player had his head lopped off basically because he was 3 levels above what the Civilian ID allowed. Unacceptable in my opinion. Sometimes I get the feeling, the sanction is based off mood.

I must agree in that with Cent. There is mysterious fog around system of sanctioning. Sometimes is someone almost stoned into death for such trivial thing like "merc + coladas + manta + docked at NY" - fined all guns, credits, notification in hold and sometimes you get screens of OORP cruiser shooting everybody around and he get ony fined all guns and warning.

Few months ago when was admin Buldogng, there was one key how to predict sanction - it was allways BAN from him. Now I dont know, looks like Hoodlum is tough guy and Del is softer.

What I want to say is: you can try sanction ppl with using of precedenses from past time. Same delict = same sanction. Not like now when it depend on who is sanctioned, who is sanctioning and how good or bad was your day.

swift · (This post was last modified: 01-19-2009, 06:36 PM by swift.)

Agreed with Jure mostly. Some kind of system like that would be good.
Now I am not saying that I want some kind of community dictatorship, but you know..
I do not know what kind of system would be best, only that I think one would be needed.
Not just about admins, about everything pertaining server things actually.

Now, I know what you might say. That even democracy has it's faults, and of course if the case would happen when the community would vote for something insane(Even if it will not) I am not against Igiss having an absolute veto.
Look, in every part of the community I think, there will always be good or "bad" people, the point is not to judge a book by it's cover, not to say no when something is suggested without saying why, having a generally more positive attitude on the forums(Not just admins, mind you), weighing in all the options, and improving the community this way.

Look, we all want the same thing, Discovery being as much fun as we can make it, with equal rights for all who wish to do it by the book, who respect others', adapt to others, and let them squeeze their RP in if there is room.

Furthermore, a more positive attitude towards newcomers and also newcomer factions, who are noticed that are into RP.

I could offer a few examples where some faction proposals were ignored, it's players not advised on what to do, just saying no.

I mean, it goes a long way, when I think of another crazy idea of mine, that I get people to comment on it, say yes OR no, but with arguments.

"Visit Discoverygc.com forums to participate in the further development of the mod" - says the circular system message on the server.

All for now. *wink

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All morons hate it when you call them a moron.

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CFF Communication Channel and RP Collection

Tenacity · 01-19-2009, 06:43 PM,

I think sanctions really need to meet the actual circumstances of the situation.

Examples:

1. A player has his rep incorrect (say, an outcast friendly towards corsairs due to killing too many bounty hunters), so those npcs arent shooting at him during a fight. General server 'etiquette' says "shoot a cruise disruptor at the enemy npcs to be fair", but this rarely happens.
The sanction in this case should be a simple rep adjustment for the player.

2. A player has an oorp weapon setup, say he's an outcast flying a sabre using salamancas and coladas. Usually this is considered a severe rule infraction and is punished by loss of all weapons, all credits, and maybe even time in bastille...
The sanction, IMO, should simply be removal of all non-RP weapons.

3. A trader F1's during a piracy event, usually this constitutes the loss of all credits and guns. A trader losing -all- of his credits (usually running up into the hundreds of millions) is very likely to say screw off and leave the server after that sanction.
How about fining the trader half of his credits, up to say 100 million max, and giving those credits to the pirate that lost out on the event?

Etaphreven · 01-19-2009, 06:46 PM,

' Wrote:1. A player has his rep incorrect (say, an outcast friendly towards corsairs due to killing too many bounty hunters), so those npcs arent shooting at him during a fight. General server 'etiquette' says "shoot a cruise disruptor at the enemy npcs to be fair", but this rarely happens.
The sanction in this case should be a simple rep adjustment for the player.

Great idea, except everyone would break this rule just to get their rep adjusted by an admin, 'cause they're lazy.:P

Tenacity · (This post was last modified: 01-19-2009, 06:48 PM by Tenacity.)

oh, one other thing i've noticed is that the admins seem to be particularly 'lazy' when it comes to choosing sanction notifications.

I checked on the lost battlestar in open singleplayer, and there's sanction notifications that cover almost every rule infraction in their infocards... but it seems from what i've seen that they only use a generic one most of the time, something that says "this is in your hold because you've been sanctioned for breaking the rules, check the forums for more info"

' Wrote:Great idea, except everyone would break this rule just to get their rep adjusted by an admin, 'cause they're lazy.:P

well add a 50 mil fine or something with it to prevent abuse.

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