BHG Warships. A flawed concept?

[Carlos_Benitez]

I recently read through yet another topic about BHG capital-ship PVP whores ruining everyone's fun, and I've been thinking to myself, is the idea of BHG warships, in itself, completely flawed anyway?

It seems to me that the Bounty Hunters Guild is just that; a Guild, of free agents working for their own profit. How could so many people get organised together to crew a capital ship? Surely they would need paying, and NO bounty in Sirius would pay for over 50 officers, when each one of them could be out there, in fighters and bombers, winning their OWN bounties.
Who would build BHG capitals? Do they have a shipyard? Do they have the resources? Most importantly, why on earth would they want battleships? Pursuing enemies through unlawful space in a capital ship is totally impractical, and as previously mentioned, the cost of running and crewing a battleship, cruiser or destroyer greatly outweighs any profit that could be made by using the ship to collect bounties!

As far as RP is concerned, it seems to me that Bounty Hunter pilots would much rather work in smaller groups in fighters and bombers, and get a decent cut of any bounties, rather than work as one of 50 or more people as part of a crew of a Battleship. As far as RP is concerned, I can't see why Bounty Hunter capitals should exist!

Then, we come to the OORP issues surrounding them. By it's very nature, the BHG is not one organisation and is made up of independent players. That means that any regulation of such players is next to impossible. I'm well aware of this, as we Corsairs sometimes have similar issues.
Thus, it seems regulation of every individual Bounty Hunter begins and ends with the ADMINS.
In truth, it normally begins with them getting a capital ship, and ends with a ban.

The Bounty Hunter's Guild ID is the only ID in the game which suggests you can go anywhere, fight anyone, and use a massive ship. This is why it attracts PVP-whores that don't belong here.
Other than clan-organised BHG, it seems to me that most BHG players (most, not all) are out to score as many kills as possible, and use their bounty winnings to get bigger and BIGGER ships, so that they can score MORE kills.

Is it EVER appropriate to see a Bounty Hunter Battleship/Cruiser in criminal systems? If the BHG could do such a thing, so could any of the House navies!
Of course, if people understood this, all the BHG warships would be stuck in house space, either fighting unbalanced battles against tiny house-criminal-ships, or sitting around, redundant. People are always complaining about BHG capital-whores ruining everyone's fun...but sometimes I wonder, is it POSSIBLE to fly a BHG warship and NOT upset people?
Either you're fighting unbalanced battles in house space, or you're invading places you shouldn't be going, and even then; with too much metal than would seem to be appropriate. Perhaps these players dreams of owning huge ships turn sour when they get them, because their ships cannot be used for anything but EVIL!?

Sorry...going a bit melodramatic there...but you get my point.
In short, I'm beginning to wonder weather we should have BHG warships in the game atall.

• The RP of the existence of such ships is dubious at best.
  
• The use of such ships, in RP, should never be profitable for an organisation who's sole purpose is to score kills in an economical manner so as to make profit.
  
• The BHG lifestyle and ship-set attract the wrong sort of player.
  
• It may be impossible to use BHG capitals without voluntarily, or involuntarily screwing up other people's RP and PVP experience.
  

Certainly, If I where one of the Disco team looking back, I would regret ever introducing BHG warships to the mod at all.
The gunship (once it's balanced) and the Orca Gunboat could be used well, but I don't see much hope of the warships ever benefiting the community. If it where possible to do so without considerable techno-faffing, Id have them removed from the mod.
To make up for it, I'd probably give the Orca a bigger power plant and more armour, making it a technologically superior (but RP practical) capital ship in-keeping with the rest of the state-of-the-art BHG ship line.

Glossary:
Capital Ship=Gunship, Gunboat, Destroyer, Cruiser, Battlecruiser, Battleship.
Warship = Destroyer, Cruiser, Battlecruiser, Battleship.

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[Guest]

A dominance struggle between the BHG and the Order for nomad space and the lust to discover more technology leads to the development of heavy warships from the bounty money collected...i think

[Tenacity]

they have their purpose, things will be sorted out by ID limitations in 4.85 - The BHG guard ID is the only one that allows cruisers/battlecruisers/battleships, and it restricts the player from doing anything but fighting the order in the omicron systems, pretty much.

Besides, most BHG capship players are pretty horrible at flying them, it's fun scattering their ships across delta =P

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[Death Shadow]

The only reason that Bounty Hunters got capships in the first place is because everyone else on Discovery had them. You all remember back before battleship lisences right? Every pirate had a capship.

I speak from experience.

EDIT: Why is everyone always trying to limit everything the BHG can do anyways?

[Dusty Lens]

This thread has been rated a fire hazard. Mind yourselves and don't throw cigarettes out the window.

[Nightwind]

You addressed an important problem. The whole mod has become way to cap-ship orientated. IMO captial ships should be rarely seen. They're expensive to build and valuable for their faction.

But the reality looks different... *cough* pirates in *cough* gunboats *cough*

[Tenacity]

You addressed an important problem. The whole mod has become way to cap-ship orientated. IMO captial ships should be rarely seen. They're expensive to build and valuable for their faction.

But the reality looks different... *cough* pirates in *cough* gunboats *cough*

i dunno, over the past month or two i've started to see more and more people (primarily factions) switch to fighters and bombers away from their capships. Even me, and I happen to be horrible in a fighter =) Of course, i'm getting a carrier in 4.85, but I'll still have a fighter character (my hogosha).

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[El Nino]

Naturaly:PIf rules allowed it, i'd camp New berlin JH in a cruiser,... (actually right now gunboats are better than cruisers) I imagine back in the days when it was allowed it was done...

In general thou BHG Caps are abused, 4.85 will introduce ID's that limit their ZOI and i expecth BHG caps to get sanctioned much like corsairs entering NY...

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Skype: jure.grbec
My primary char: Jose El Nino - Corsair Elder captain of the SS Greenhawk

Currently Inactive due to pursuit of life long dreams, will be back...*edited* As promised am back.

[Derkylos]

Apparently, the Bounty Hunter Guild Core is an incredibly rich organisation, presumably a result of the large number of operatives working throught Sirius. They want to collect, adapt and use Nomad technology in order to enhance the criminal-hunting abilities of their employees.

The Order opposes this, as they see use of Nomad organisms as a danger to the population of Sirius, due to the risk of infection. Also, Nomads already use this powerful technology.

As such, the Guild Core felt that they needed heavier firepower than a simple gunboat to fight their wars out in the lonelycrons. Also, they needed staging points for their fighters.

Therefore, heavier ships evolved and were deployed to this area, where they are actually at war (hence the use of "warships"). Hunters in destroyers and up are not in it for the money. they are soldiers in the Guild Core's army, fighting a war against Nomads, Order and Corsairs.

The "they couldn't fund it" argument could also be applied to pirate capital ships. Rogues, for example, are not an industrial powerhouse, their manufacturing capabilities do not approach that of the major houses (due mainly to the fact that the major houses each have a corporation devoted solely to the production of warships). Yet they manage to produce the Outcast dessie.

Same for the Corsairs-their only export is artifacts, which, as an illegal commodity in all their selling points, does not provide a stable income.

From a mechanics perspective, BH caps are small and agile. The BHBC can mount 2 battleship missile turrets, enabling it to seriously hurt any attacking bomber, as one cannot simply stand off and snipe (assuming the BC pilot knows what he's doing). The "Bounty Hunter battlecruiser endemic" is actually relatively well-matched by the "Corsair lunchbox endemic". Both are among the best ships in their class, both are used regularly by independants who have no responsibility towards a faction.

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[Robert.Fitzgerald]

Derkylos basically explained the purpose of the Guild Core. Essentially, it is a separate part of the Bounty Hunters Guild, with a completely different function. They don't hunt bounties, they don't visit house space to help traders, they wage war. They research to further their own technology (for an unknown purpose at present).

Simply, the bounty hunter capitals you see flying about the House systems wasting fighters are not playing their role correctly. Admittedly, it is hard to know all the roleplay about the Guild Core, or even that it exists, because there is not much information about it. Apart from the basics, most has been built upon by players and the [Core] and S/D factions. Obviously, these roleplay stories and so on are on the forums, so not all BHG players will know about them.

It may be impossible to use BHG capitals without voluntarily, or involuntarily screwing up other people's RP and PVP experience.

I like to think that responsible Guild Core players exist, and I consider myself one. I do get (hypocritical) complaints about fairness, but mostly from Corsairs who want a fight and I won't give them one.

A note - there are bad independents in all factions. It just so happens that the Bounty Hunter ID currently lacks many restrictions. Next version that's all changing - so don't worry too much. Keep those bombers wasting the Battlecruisers in House space and playing the game to your extent. Don't let OORP ruin your RP, ignore and/or turn the situation around. Next version they'll be either in the Omicrons or Bastille.

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