hah, shame that even the admins cant tell those asterisks werent swear words, oh well.
Back on topic:
-Increase range on all solaris turrets to 1500m
-Slightly increase damage on solaris turrets so you dont need 10 of the buggers to kill something, its like using chainguns right now
-Make cruiser and gunboat razors slightly faster, say 800-1000m/s for gunboat razors and 1200 for cruiser razors, battleships are fine at the current 1600 but could probably afford to drop to 1400 with the changes to solaris guns
-Make battleship razors take less energy, and do less damage if necessary, so that energy is kept for other weapons. A cruiser can fire one razor and use, at most, 20% of his energy - a battleship razor uses almost 50%.
The other thing that annoys me right now is primary turrets, though unrelated to point defense. Cruiser/Gunboat primary turrets are... useless. They dont have enough speed to hit small ships, they dont do enough damage to make a difference when fighting other caps - it took me almost 10-15 seconds of constant fire from 8 cruiser primary turrets to take a gunboat shield from 10% to nothing, with nearly every shot hitting - that's pretty pathetic.
Right now it seems like 'normal' guns, which used to be the -only guns worth using-, are the underdogs... and you can only be effective using specailized turrets unless you're flying a battleship (battleship primaries are ridiculous right now, far better than most specialized battleship weaponry).
' Wrote:You know what's funny? When flying as an "indie" I just call in my friends if I need escorts.
Friends are cool.
We are not so well endowed in our likability as you. More importantly, we should not have to be in order to play the game. (Which incidentally you all just lost.)
At the thread in general, I find it to be a point of hilarity that there is now a double protection of sorts for fighters against capital ships.
One, with the introduction of a Guard ID, there will be less capital ships as frankly some people do not want to spend time doing boring missions to gain the appropriate reputation. (Yes, boring. Regardless of the fact that now four BH Hammerheads can kill my OC Destroyer when before I used to sit still with thirty, the missions are still boring. I want to spend my time role-playing, not shooting NPC's that repeat the same phrase over and over again whilst making my fingers regret taking the mission.)
Secondly, the guns can easily hit fighters and bombers and as such any capital ship cannot possibly go on a "wtfpwnage" session. (Which incidentally was one of the reasons for the introduction of a Guard ID.)
With my second point, I do not see how what fox-man said could apply. (Quoted below for reference.)
' Wrote:Waaaah. I want my winship to be able to beat anything! Waaaah. I want to be able to destroy anything without dying! Waaaah. Why won't you let me proclaim myself the uber lord of all and go around sirius, blowing everything sky-high for the lulz? Waaaah.
Response blanked. (Why are you going through my posts anyway?)
To be honest, i think its how things should be. Caps should be pathetic against small craft and should be backed up by escorts for every small runaround.
Cruisers are artilery right? Well, you have support for that, as you dont shoot flies with a rpg.
Sure its frustrating that a 200mil worth of tech cannot defent itself against a 7mil worth pewpew ship, but it is how things are. Sorry. But its perfectly in Rp.
Well then, in that case, I will see none of you, on my 4.82 server.
And again, ww2 battleships + cruisers had defense against planes... cough...
and yet again, whats the point of buying that 200m-800m piece of capital ship total ownage that cant even down fighter wings that are 90% of the NPC "player" base
Are you talking about gunboat turrets here? They certainly are not useless...
Gunboat turrets are very fast and combined with gunboat agility, are -very- dangerous against bombers and fighters.
Gunboat razors move quite fast now already. It is quite easy, with a bit of aiming practice, to hit jousting bombers with battle razors, which can do serious damage.
Quote: To be honest, i think its how things should be. Caps should be pathetic against small craft and should be backed up by escorts for every small runaround.
This ideal looks great on RP paper, but nobody seems to realize that there simply arent enough server slots for every military faction to fly around in groups of 10+ ship battlefleets. It is not something that is currently workable, or likely ever will be, so trying to base balance on the fact that escorts will be around 100% of the time is flawed right out of the barrel.
Quote:Cruisers are artilery right? Well, you have support for that, as you dont shoot flies with a rpg.
Sure its frustrating that a 200mil worth of tech cannot defent itself against a 7mil worth pewpew ship, but it is how things are. Sorry. But its perfectly in Rp.
Take a look at modern warships. Even the heavy artillery craft have small machineguns and anti-aircraft guns for defense, despite how rarely they're used. Now, yes, we do have turrets that are -supposed- to fill that defensive role, but right now they're all so poorly balanced none of them are worth using.
Let's do a comparison here, shall we? In WW2, a single bomber plane, no matter how good it was, could not ever possibly hope to take on even a cruiser, it didnt have enough ammo and would likely be shot down by flak long before it got a bomb dropped.
Here, only battleships have flak guns, those flak guns are barely usable for most battleships as is, and the guns that are supposed to be 'anti fighter' dont have a long enough range for anything but the smallest capships to use them.
Another comparison, WW2 and modern naval vessels had dozens upon dozens of weapons. Most WW2 destroyers would have 4-5 heavy turrets for attacking other large ships, 2-3 torpedo tube arrays for dealing with bigger craft like carriers and battleships, anywhere from 6-12 small machine guns for use against aircraft and small water craft, and generally 6-8 anti-aircraft guns.
Cruisers (the equivalent ship type) in disco have 10-12 guns on average. For a decent anti-cap setup, you need to use at least 6 of those weapon hardpoints on anti-cap weaponry, leaving you 4-6 at most for anti-fighter weaponry, generally in inconvenient hardpoint locations creating huge blind spots that fighters/bombers can take advantage of.
I realize it isnt feasible to make capships with 20-30 turrets each, but we need to make better use of the few turrets we -do- have. The antifighter weaponry is underpowered right now and does not hold fighters or bombers at bay like it's supposed to, that needs to be fixed.
Bombers have in their arsenal heavy anti-cap weapons which have up to 3-4k range, they should not be flying in on viagra pills and humping the crap out of a capship to avoid the cap's anti fighter weapons, and they shouldnt be safe at 900m where they will never miss with novas or supernovas... ever.
Bombers and fighters are small craft with the weakest military weaponry (in-rp) available, they are utilized as agile combat platforms, not as tanks. They SHOULD rightly fear capships, because capships have the most powerful weaponry (again, only in-rp since balance is completely out of whack on this server), shielding, and armor known to sirius.
I may indeed not be the right person to post my opinion here and talk from experience in such matters. But fact of the matter is , that I have been flying only one battleship for close to an year now. During that time , I learned alot , realy alot. Changed my tactics and my weapons choices. But the most important thing that I realised while flying a Battleship is that , I quote Jinx " You don't need to see a fireball to win a fight ... ". Completely true , in my humble opinion.
Now , on topic. Cam , like it or not , sir. You are in possesion of a ZONER Juggernaught. The people you have chosen to support and role play , zoners , actually have no enemies. You argument that Harvesters , Wilde and Keepers are enemies of the Zoners , realy are ridiculous , unnecessary and will probly not convince anyone to change the current power of your ship. Do you realy think that a Zoner Juggernaught is needed to counter 3 factions ? Not to mention that the few , selected and pointed as enemies of the Zoners , factions are quite rare , but even that is not the most important thing about them. I'll brake the information for you.
Harvesters - We have one Cruiser , very nice looks thanks to Jinx , wich is hardly a threat to a Zoner Juggernaught. No matter how bad you at flying your ship , that cruiser will never be able to destroy the Juggernaught , alone.
Wilde - Well , I don't realy think there is much to say about them realy. The Wilde , as I'm sure you know , are found in nothing larger then a Gunboat. Aldo it has impressive looks , hardly a real thrat to a Juggernaught.
Keepers - Yes , here you actually have a faction that has and flies Battleships. I'm convinced however that , when even the Harbringer or the Infinity show themselves in a system , such as Delta for instance , they will be atacked by alot more people , then just you. In other words , unless you are intentionaly looking for a fight with one of them , alone , you are not going to face them in a 1to1 combat.
The Zonner Juggernaught is a very impressive ship , but it is made to reflect the needs of those who fly it , Zoners. Aldo it has a scary and "cool" sounding the name , the Juggernaught is more of a slumbering giant. Don't get me wrong , it can pack a huge punch , but that is not the purpose it is made for.
If you cannot defeat a group of Nomad NPC's in that ship , then you , sir , are doing something wrong.
About the Battleship Missle turrets :
Like Mule , kindly stated above , if you are able to hit a Fighter/Bomber with such a weapon , you are cheating. I'll add something to his statement , you are either cheating or the bomber/fighter pilot is standing perfectly still.
Those weapons have been made for a purpose and that purpose , they do very well. They are ment to be a strategic anti capital ship weapon , used when the "timing is right" , not spammed with the expected results of "uber pwning everything" in it's path.
The Capital ship Razors :
Simply put , you are not correct , Cam. Firing two Razors will NOT drain the energy of your Battleship , having 9 million energy. I'm possitive that even I can fire two at the same time and still have enought energy to continue firing. But like Mule stated , no more then 1 of these speacial weapons , is needed. Again , for the job it's ment to do it's good enought. It is not imbalanced but with training one can become relativly good at sniping bombers and Guboats with it who are not experienced to fight againts the Razor.
Tenacity , like I said before , if the speed of the Cruiser Razors is encreaced , they will become a nightmare for bombers facing smaller cruisers. Always remember , there are other Cruiser class ships , yours is just one of them.
About the Carrier : Tenacity , I'm possitive that even if you get 2 BS turrets and mount Flak Turrets on them , you will not be satisfied with them. Currently your ship is fine as it is , it got smaller and harder to kill. I say that is enought. We have tested alot , you know that you can't kill me alone and I can't kill you either. But am I constantly complaining about that fact ? A Battleship cannot destroy a cruiser / battlecruiser , actually it cannot destroy anything with a thruster. But that is how it's ment to be , two cruisers , IF FLOWN correctly can easily destroy a Battlship.
A word of recomendation for everyone.
Before posting and complaining about how imbalanced and worthless some weapons are , test them. Test them alot , that is what I've been doing and that is what you need to do. The new system is a step in the right direction for improving capital class weapons. No longer does someone need to plant all secondaries/primaries and be ready to face anything. For your capital ship to be able to stand againts others , you need two things.
1st - Tactics / Know your weaknesses and try to work around them.
2nd - Weapon groups. This one is a must for everything GB and above.
Being bigger/having more armor and more weapons , does not mean that you can destroy everything , smaller is better that is why smaller ships need to know their tacticts and learn how to fight by using kitting.
Ok, eternal, you just COMPLETELY missed the point.
First, I am not talking about the luggernaut. Its great, I love it. tottaly worth getting rid of 490 mil and a big fat green pile of junk. I am talking about how INEFFECTIVE all these supposedly anti small ship weapons are.
Wether or not we have enemies is besides the point. the point is, defending against those who DO attack.
And, defending against the PURELY annoying everyday nomad npc squadron (among others) and actually BEING effective.
Quote:About the Carrier : Tenacity , I'm possitive that even if you get 2 BS turrets and mount Flak Turrets on them , you will not be satisfied with them. Currently your ship is fine as it is , it got smaller and harder to kill.
Nothing has changed about the size of the carrier, all that was changed is a boost of about 200k armor - which was needed entirely, since before that change, the carrier had around 150k less armor than any of the other bc's, despite being almost twice as large as most.
As for your comments on the razor - with the current speed of cruiser razors, it's near impossible to hit any of the medium to small sized -gunboats- at more than 500m, and any experienced gunboat pilot (hell even a rookie most likely) can keep outside of that range due to greater manuverability.
A gunboat cannot be hit with other heavy weapons (namely mortarsght mortars) unless it's standing still, the razors are designed to be the cruiser's primary weapon against those gunboats - yet right now the only ones we can hit are the oversized gb's, because the projectile speed is so low.
Like I said, it wont be a problem against bombers if the bombers are forced to stay at > 1500m from the larger capships during a fight, im tired of bomber pilots humping my carrier because they know there's no way i can kill them when they do, and THAT is the entire point of this thread - capship point defense (meaning, defensive weaponry against small ships, primarily bombers) is utter crap right now.
I'm not asking to kill battleships, I'm asking for things to be balanced the way we were TOLD they were supposed to be balanced. Right now, weapons are not properly fulfilling their intended roles, that is called a bug, not being wanton for more power.
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