The Order - Future Direction

[Agmen of Eladesor]

To Agmen of Eladesor:

Well, let's see it this way: both Core and Order can fight each other to kingdom come as far as I'm concerned (except the fact it attracts a certain type of people en masse), thing is the whole subject of and the premise of the entire conflict could lose the main structure support pillar - the nomads. And have it all come down back to what it was and to disband nomad player faction, cause the way I see the picture is that whatever is happening in Omicrons got stuck in a groundhog day, badly, people are bored to death with that endless PvPfest and myself I'm just preparing for the worst to come soon enough. Sucks, innit? Just a discussion, you know, so I guess we're here to discuss, right? Right... This whole mess needs a fix, solutions to move it away onto a better path rather than sit at mud pit and do nothing. I for one find zero enjoyment in what's going in that area, as a result growing inactive further day by day. Go ahead, write alliance, win the day, be a hero, heck I might even arrange a victory for that... but then what are you all going to do after? I think I know the answer: becoming obsolete.

I don't really have an issue with becoming obsolete as far as the Order is concerned. Far be it from that - I have been moving several of my characters back in house to do regular bounty hunting again as a side. My only objection to the whole process is that - from my perspective - that the Corsairs have decided they hve an issue and are saying what the Outcasts will have to do about it.

That's the similarity I'm coming up with here - because while we (the BHG) are the enemies of the Order - the Order certainly is not OUR only enemy. Please don't write a wall of text and expect it to be taken as a fait accompli by all parties involved. Clean up your own house, certainly, and if possible do it in RP. (Remember faction rights and the Apocalypse rebellion? And you'll note how closely now we guard both our ships and our weapons - and we're doing it within our RP. Try something like that if you're having issues with independants and lolwutters.

RIGHT 2) Official factions have authority over players of the same NPC affiliation, as long as RP justification is provided. This authority applies in forums and in-game, and applies to player faction diplomacy, and strategic and tactical direction. However, exercise of that authority, on the forums and in game, is restricted to official faction members with the rank of the official faction leader and one rank below him/her. The authority may be exercised through the use of in-game in-RP orders, which, if not obeyed, can result in in-game in-RP consequences (arrest, court martial, and even "lethal" force in extreme circumstances). Official Factions cannot, under any cicrumstances, require another player to follow non-canon RP if that player doesn't want to.

Kelt can issue orders that the High Command is afraid of concentrated Nomad activity. Then restrict all cap ships from going anywhere in Delta except for a straight line between the Minor Jump Hole and the 100 Jump Hole. That doesn't take care of the issue of any raids in Minor - but suddenly there should be no Gebs sitting at FP11. I'm certainly willing to work with Chris on something - if we're asked so we can discuss it.

Finally - I do agree with Tenacity (surprise!) about controlling large cap ships. Shouldn't be a big shock - I was all for the original faction right #5 that Dieter proposed when it was published the first time. But here's the key thing - guys, you HAVE to be fair to EVERYONE about this. You cannot impose restrictions on the sale of cap ships for one faction without giving that right to ALL factions. Which - again, from my perspective is NOT a bad thing. But of course, as Tena mentioned - anytime something like this comes up, you hear screaming about how terrible and untrustworthy all of those faction leaders are. (Never mind the minor detail that you're also talking about the same admin team that actually runs the day-to-day operations of this server. Obviously those poor blokes can't be trusted at all.)

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[Elsdragon]

you hear screaming about how terrible and untrustworthy all of those faction leaders are. (Never mind the minor detail that you're also talking about the same admin team that actually runs the day-to-day operations of this server. Obviously those poor blokes can't be trusted at all.)

THe faction leaders arent all admins....Or are they?

But yes, you trus admins and mods to put their Bias aside, they aint the only ones capable of that.

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No longer a slave to the man!

[Tovig]

Dashiell have a point here. This new Order RP is right only if aliens factions (Keepers, Wilde, Aoi AND Phantoms) are active too. Or we will be very bored, it's true...

[sean24]

Too many things to quote and agree with Tenacity. Ill just say I agree with all of the things outlined.

Especially the Allegiances section.

The Corsair/Order alliance made sense in the start of .85, when the order needed capital ships constructed and the Cosairs needed more sophisticated technology, but that isn't so anymore. When I had an Order character, all the lolwuting Corsairs hung around Gamma wtf pwning any red players. Not once did they come to assist the order in Minor. The only reason they visit the Order is to take thier weapons and ships.

Reclaiming the old alliances is the best option. I even think, perhaps the Order should re-ally with Liberty?

[Linkus]

Oddly enough, I find myself happy with the majority of this.
Good luck with it anywho, whatever way you choose to go.
Just doing something is worth a pat on the back anyway, this appears thought out.

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Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.

[Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever]

The alliance with the Zoners is still valid. We're trade partners, weapon-development partners (look at Hathor's infocard) and we assist eachother in defending our bases.

However, The BHG war does not make sense, It hadn't since it started that long, long time ago. They're fighting eachother... For passage? The BHG already have a base in Delta... What's the problem? Nomad weapons? They can easily harvest those from Nomad/Order wrecks.

Ugh, I'm always the nuetral Cap 8 Juggernaut guy in Delta saying "Ah, yes, The Order's petty squabbles.".

[... kur nubėgo?]

I like it. Expecially about cap ship usage. I think other faction could use such system too.

Now few points which came to my mind (positive ones):

- Yes, I agree with you, order really should act like this instead to open warfare
- I agree with cutting alliance with Corsairs. But anyhow Osiris stays at corsair hands, since in rp corsairs has the blueprints and knowlange how to built one.
- All in all it really should make Order a better faction


Now few negatives:

- You don't really need so much osirises around the sirius imo
- Do you realise that if you will start stoping artefact smugglers you'll become hostile to corsairs?
- Now bundschuh alliance and dragons. Order never had alliances with these factions. They ahd only agents in those factions but not open alliance. Heck Ozu wasn't orderer at all he was a dragon. He haven't even known that Tekagi is posesed being by a nomad. Order used him. Thats all (remember the line "tekagi is acting strage even for him lately" which means he doesn't have a clue about possesion)


But agian. Its a good suggestion.


P.S do you realise that those lolwutter of yourse will simply trasnfer to liberty or gamma?

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[Mounteblanc]

Reclaiming the old alliances is the best option. I even think, perhaps the Order should re-ally with Liberty?

I don't see this happening. If Liberty were to somehow lose all its corruption, and the LSF stopped its secret research on Nomads, then maybe. But, right now that wouldn't happen.

The Order was never allied with Liberty in Vanilla, either. They were labeled as 'terrorists', and were just ignored and covered up after the Nomad War.

- You don't really need so much osirises around the sirius imo
No, probably not. They would only need them in the important, jump-hole nexus like systems, from which they can access most of Sirius.
- Do you realise that if you will start stoping artefact smugglers you'll become hostile to corsairs?
I don't think that they'd care about that. They already stop non-sair Artifact smugglers in Minor.
- Now bundschuh alliance and dragons. Order never had alliances with these factions. They ahd only agents in those factions but not open alliance. Heck Ozu wasn't orderer at all he was a dragon. He haven't even known that Tekagi is posesed being by a nomad. Order used him. Thats all (remember the line "tekagi is acting strage even for him lately" which means he doesn't have a clue about possesion)
But agian. Its a good suggestion.
The Dragons may not have known exactly what they were facing, but they still aided the Order openly. And the entire segment with the Bundschuh was fairly confusing, but they seemed to know what the Nomads were, and aided the Order in combating them. While, yes, in Vanilla there were no official alliances, that would still be a great direction for the Order to move in.

[Tenacity]

I vote for making Order| a faction with exclusive invite only. I don't care if you have 500 members in the end, make sure every one of those wants to roleplay.

Make capital ships a rarity, force Core BHG to fight you with fighters.
Ignore order indies completely, and form the cells within that main Order.

Put Order characters in every House, make them visible where there are threats of the Nomads. Perhaps an mothership of some sort in every house, make it a corvo cruiser and award those that roleplay within their cell.

Make sure that you limit the cap use to high ranked members, make sure one (stable) person decides who can get them, or get promotion merit based.
Make promotions a valid part of Order Faction, but make sure that the leaders are always outnumbered by alot from "grunts".
Sorry if I sound random, but the fact is that alot of people are in Order because they're in gray area to what order does, but at long as it pvp-s its cool.
Shame to waste a faction like that.

The first "idea" to come up was to make the order an exclusive faction, but for more than a few reasons that simply wont work. That's why the idea has been tossed aside and replaced with the solutions that I posted.

The order worked just fine with 'indies' in 4.84 - what pulled the faction down into the cesspool it's currently in was the addition of more capships, and the addition of the BHG war which gives order players an always-available opponent to pvp against.

No matter what we do, the order will not become an invite only faction, people will have to accept that indies do exist, and that not all of them are bad. Back during 4.84, I swore by the order's independent players, claiming that we had more responsible players and better roleplayers amongst our independents than any other faction in sirius. That's what I want to bring back - I dont want to get rid of indies completely (I am one, and there are still dozens of 'good' indy players with us), but I want to get rid of the bad ones while retaining those who actually have proved themselves, or gaining new independents who want to roleplay rather than fight all of the time.

A lengthy post.....

Each point is worth commenting on its own, however, the first part that sticks out in my mind is in the allegiances part:

Specifically in regards to the Hessians and Dragons - Both of these are allies of the Outcasts, which means you will potentially be in situations that would pit you against the Corsairs, your former allies. Now given the discovery RP angle where the Outcasts, major suppliers and allies to the factions you mentioned tend to venerate the Nomads - the very species you are sworn to fight against....

You see where im going with this?

Why would the Order put themselves into that camp in such an obvious way? Who are the Hessians in particular going to side with.... The Order (for what benifit?) or the Outcasts (with obvious benefits in their war with the Corsairs).

The goal is to remove ourselves from the hispania war completely.

The alliance was with the bundschuh, not the hessians. Through the bundschuh, we can draw on hessian support when we're fighting the wilde, but we will never assist them against the corsairs.

The blood dragons broke off their alliance with the outcasts in 4.85, they are no longer allied and no longer have any ties except through the golden chrysanthemums' need for cardamine, which concerns the blood dragons in no way.

These two allies (bundschuh and dragons) have no connections to either side of the hispania war, and thus we would not find ourselves constantly caught up in battles between the corsairs and outcasts, nor their allies.

The -only- thing that the order cares about (or at least, 'should' care about) is the nomad and wilde threat. Most seasoned order players consider the interfactional disputes among 'human' factions to be petty and pointless in the overall scheme of things, which is half the reason we want out of the corsair alliance. Too many of our less... focused... independent players have been taking their gebs into alpha and blowing up outcasts with no regard for past diplomacy. There was a time in 4.84 when we even worked with the outcasts on occasion when it was warranted or needed.

The only thing the corsair alliance is doing for us, right now, is limiting our options in potential allies.

The order's current allies list is:
Zoners, Hogosha, Corsairs

The new allies list would be:
Zoners, Blood Dragons, Bundschuh

In the end, we're trying to gain allies who are more politically motivated, rather than allies who are, more or less, pure criminals.

Section 4: Capship control

Yes. Please. If it means taking away Corsair Osirises, please, do it. As an Outcast, nothing annoys me more to see our worst enemies using tech belonging to a neutral group. Furthermore, it doesn't make sense that the Order would allow their super-high tech battleship to be used by warring criminals. It's like giving mobsters AT-ATs.

There was a suggestion some time ago to create a 'corsair osiris', with a different ship name, and slightly altered stats, for corsair use. The corsairs have the plans and capability to construct the osiris, and the order high command has no issue with their continuing use of that ship - it's the resheph, hathor, and geb that are causing problems.

And the license idea...
Could be abused I think.
People would 'sell' their license.

Exactly why I mentioned that a forum-posted list would be kept showing every shipname/playername that is permitted a license. Anyone who doesnt match that list gets their ship and license removed.

then, attacking Outcasts? why? with the Order gone, what stops the core from scooping up all the tech and researching where and whatever they want? apart from hordes of angry sushi-ike aliens, of course. bit unrealistic that the Order goes 'meh' now and leaves the Core alone while they run amok with nasty rayguns. but oh well.

Where do you propose that the BHG are obtaining these nasty rayguns from, then? Currently, the only nomad weapons in use by the bhg are on a special RP request basis. With the order and bhg's fleets destroyed or weakened (in rp, i'm not asking the bhg ships to be removed from the mod), the bhg would have very little power in the edge worlds.

There are, of course, things that i cant explain here due to the NDA for 4.86's development. Unfortunately, that means that anyone who is not in on what's happening with .86 probably has no clue what's going on =/ Wait and see is the best I can say.






Finally, @ Agmen of Eladesor - I'll speak with you in PM's, once again there are things that have already been planned and are awaiting addition to the mod which I cannot describe due to the NDA from Igiss.

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[Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever]

Hmm.. What would the Corsair's be regarded as? They're bordering on Order Space (Delta is Nuetral Space)
Nuetral? Friendly?

All this wait and see BS again.

All I can say is 4.86 BETTER NOT fail as much as this one did.