Quote:yea..the thing is.. as soon as the mines are launched..it tracks you as the closest target so it all runs toward yourself..which is very suicidal..
I believe mines can be given both a projectile launch speed as well as a tracking/travel speed (most mines have 80m/s or 60m/s speed) - you'd just have to make the travel/tracking speed zero so the mines dont go anywhere after launching away from the ship.
My idea to make flaks useful is make all torpedoes destroyable... that way if a torp is fired at a ship with a flak barrier up.. it wont get through. Only way is to maneuver around (where more then 1 bomber comes into play, because your turrets dont turn fast enough to get a barrier up on both sides at once)
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' Wrote:By the way, trinity, Currently, and in 4.84 too, Bombers DO rape everything. They can SN Fighters in the face and take out caps. No I dont care how skilled you are. Bombers need a agillity nerf and that is it, Hell, give them a nerf and leave these sucky fail weapons and ill be happy, but since all the devs are just biased bomberwhores I guess this will turn into a small-ship prevail mod.
' Wrote:By the way Kurosora, I have flown bombers, And they failed so bad I gave away my SN and my Infero to a bunch of nubs.
:DHahaha, This is all yes... I went to alpha yesterday... in a corsair osiris... It took them about 1 minute to take me out... and in that time short time I killed a bomber... with a mix of primaries and secondaries... Even worse the whole killing went down in about 3 seconds when the poor bomber pilote lagged for a moment (everyone was lagging he just happened to be lagging while i fired at him)
So realy... If a bomber comes within range, he's worm food... And large caps that can be SN'd from long distance have ample armor to defend themselves....
The greatest point defense is armor... caps have 2x more of it now, so I don't see what's the problem.. SN is the same as it used to be, caps have 2x more armor... secondaries hit about as much as primaries used to with the added bonus of dishing out 33% more damage per second than old ones...
We could change say SN to deal only about 90k damage but also say 90k shield damage, enabling bombers to kill a cap with lower numbers but in longer time...
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' Wrote::DHahaha, This is all yes... I went to alpha yesterday... in a corsair osiris... It took them about 1 minute to take me out... and in that time short time I killed a bomber... with a mix of primaries and secondaries... Even worse the whole killing went down in about 3 seconds when the poor bomber pilote lagged for a moment (everyone was lagging he just happened to be lagging while i fired at him)
So realy... If a bomber comes within range, he's worm food...
i'm not sure lag should be factored into determining ship effectiveness
The issue has much to do with player philosophy and the Freelancer engine.
As to the latter - simply put the engine doesn't favour large ships - they can only fire at any one target at a time and if a player can't aim there is no facility for anything like, for example, x2 or x3 where turrets can be automated and perform generally well.
x3 is a good example, as egosoft changed the combat engine a great deal to create a situation where lone caps would be vulnerable to even one or two powerful fighters that remained out of range and could chip away at the large ship and dodge its fire. No longer did having a carrier or cruiser mean invulnerability - it certainly was a tough opponent, but it needed versatility in its load out and, most importantly, support ships.
In 4.85 I think the engine now favours co-operative play - that is to say, organised and eclectic fleets that work together.
Capships generally die first and soonest because they are biggest. And because of a habit that people have acquired in response to a particularly annoying way of behaving on the part of many players.
In furballs, in my experience, generally a cap turns up unannounced and uninvited, says narry a word (which considering the potential to RP a cap is pretty shameful) and opens up on all and sundry hoping to perform a Charles Bronson-like sweep of the nasty enemy as if they were so many mosquitos. In group chat someone says "target the cruiser" and everyone turns on it. It may take a while to down the shields and there are many other situations where caps live longer, but in the face of concentrated fire from several players, caps will fold up - and more importantly, they should. Call it truly democratic gameplay, if you want. Many players favour smaller, faster ships, just as many favour the larger, more cumbersome ships.
But it doesn't just stop at that. The idea that these ships should be invulnerable doesn't sit right with me. Why should they be so versatile that they can deal with any enemy? Why should enemy fighters and bombers not be capable of haranguing them and wearing them down - as it stands if you drift too close to a big ship, you are goosed. That is why balancing becomes so difficult: the philosophy behind all this. Why should the fact that someone has traded and earned millions of credits mean they can be placed in a ship that can easily dismiss all and sundry and force people to log off their characters with minimal regard to others. They have a place in the mod, certainly, but you can't have everything. And a misused cap has the potential to cause more annoyance than a misused light fighter.
Maybe we need more turret points mounting very fast firing anti fighter weapons that are energy efficient and have very fast projectile speeds are proper anti fighter weapons - but sacrifice range for damage - less than standard cap turrets - 8.33 refire and 300 damage would be conservative enough but deadly enough to deal with any small opponent within 1000k.
I like the mine idea, but not as a fighterght fighter fan. The days of buzzing between two caps and watching the pilots shoot each other as they tried to aim at me would be gone.
8 mines capable of dealing enough damage to instakill a fighter. Bad idea. Plenty of people would not favour any ship having instakill power. Oh wait, except maybe bombers... oh dear, what have I said...
Quote:In 4.85 I think the engine now favours co-operative play - that is to say, organised and eclectic fleets that work together.
But unfortunately we still have a server player limit, which drastically reduces the ability of any faction to form large enough groups to cover each other's weaknesses. As has been said hundreds of times over the past week, escorts may seem like the perfect solution, but it's an unrealistic one, because 90% of the players on this server are flying completely solo 90% of the time, and when they do have allies with them, they're either not in the right type of ship, not in the same area of space, or the number of allies are too low to matter.
Another issue is missions, not everyone wants to do missions, but some people do still need to rep up or make money from missions. However, with this whole "NPCS should be just as powerful as players!" philosophy that has suddenly weasled it's way into the developers brains, it generally ends up taking a fleet of fighters, bombers, and caps just to finish even the low end missions.
It's not fun doing a 400k mission, having 4 BHG destroyers show up, and getting owned just because you didnt want to split that measly amount of money with another player, or just because no other players are around to help. Missions should be just as profitable for players as trading or mining or smuggling, not everyone wants to spend 5 hours a day trading for one hour of real fun. This was an issue in 4.84 because missions didnt give enough reward, but now it's even more of an issue because... the reward amount went unchanged, and now missions are a dozen times more difficult than they used to be.
Quote:I like the mine idea, but not as a fighterght fighter fan. The days of buzzing between two caps and watching the pilots shoot each other as they tried to aim at me would be gone.
8 mines capable of dealing enough damage to instakill a fighter. Bad idea. Plenty of people would not favour any ship having instakill power. Oh wait, except maybe bombers... oh dear, what have I said...
Never said they would instakill anything =P If the target's shields were down, they would instakill any fighter with less than 10k hull strength, but most VHF's have 12k+ -before- armor, and most bombers have 15-20k before armor. Considering nearly everyone uses a mk8 armor uprade, it'd take around 5-10 of these mine explosions to destroy a single bomber, but they would do enough burst damage that the bomber would definitely crap himself if he gets too close to the ship.
' Wrote:As has been said hundreds of times over the past week, escorts may seem like the perfect solution, but it's an unrealistic one, because 90% of the players on this server are flying completely solo 90% of the time, and when they do have allies with them, they're either not in the right type of ship, not in the same area of space, or the number of allies are too low to matter.
So if everyone flies solo on this server.. what does happen when a solo battleship/cruiser meets a solo bomber? Yes the bomber has no chance.
Quote:Another issue is missions, not everyone wants to do missions, but some people do still need to rep up or make money from missions. However, with this whole "NPCS should be just as powerful as players!" philosophy that has suddenly weasled it's way into the developers brains, it generally ends up taking a fleet of fighters, bombers, and caps just to finish even the low end missions.
Just earlier today my "fleet" of 1 Orca with 3 BHG turrets, was taking 600k missions against Hessians just fine.... but if we ignore that... if you need missions to rep up or make money there are always easier missions and less dangerous areas.
Quote:It's not fun doing a 400k mission, having 4 BHG destroyers show up,
Yes anti-capship missions should be clearly marked, but right now it's not easily possible.
Quote:Missions should be just as profitable for players as trading or mining or smuggling, not everyone wants to spend 5 hours a day trading for one hour of real fun. This was an issue in 4.84 because missions didnt give enough reward, but now it's even more of an issue because... the reward amount went unchanged, and now missions are a dozen times more difficult than they used to be.
I personally found that doing missions on my Corsair or Outcast takes like 1/3 the time as it did before.
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