' Wrote:however, flak are only for battleships and so far are laughable at best unless the guy is practically kissing the hull. anti fighter guns cant kill caps for anything, but they also cant kill the very things they are meant to specailise in. this is a problem. its the equivilent of a class10 sheildbuster doing 200 dmg to sheilds, its just too underpowered. currently our "anti fighter" guns have a smaller effective range than the supernova and nova can fire, which is a problem.
Fighter is NOT a bomber.
Solaris and flaks make it downright impossible for any (up to some 6-7 I guess) number of fighters to even down BS shield.
How they do against bombers is another matter.
What I'm really tired off is people telling how things suck and don't work when either:
a) they didn't try them at all, just look on the numbers and tell they suck. "I know they suck so I'm not mounting them"
b) tried them in beta 1 and never after that
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Now for the "useless" BS defenses. You have a choice
1. Mount secondaries and have about same defense against bombers and fighters as in 4.84, while having twice the hull and bats/bots. => you can do well even alone against basically anything
2. Mount solaris/flaks and you are invincible to fighters and close to invincible to bombers if you have escorts
It's your pick.
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@ Camtheman here we go again.... did you actually try Cruiser solaris with 900 damage, 800 range and 1600 m/s or you "have heard" or "know they suck" ?
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
Yeah... I just had a bit of capwhoring yet again... caps rule... I'm sorry to brake this to you, flak may be even overpowered right now... as having more than one turret is plain overkill.... secondaries are awesome when it comes to downing bombers...
The only downside i see are solaris, wich well don't wok very well if you have only 2... and 2 slots are better used by 2 more primaries.... So I agree with eppy a bit, solaris could get more range on battleships...
Cruiser solaris thou... Man If I only remember that one battle on the testing server with what 4 solaris on a cruiser... 3 bombers were bleeding to death so fast it just wasn't funny... It's way easier to defend yourself from SN in a cruiser than in a Battleship...
So Point defenses work... Capital ships are defendable.
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I have PERSONALLY tested 4 solaris's on my Juggy, Vs. 3 Keepers (who were distracted with 5 HAF Titans, too.) and they fail so bad ill go with mojlhnir's idea of having Secondaries. I have not tested cruiser, tenacity said they fail. However, as i see it...
Secondaries - Good VS Bombers
Primaries - Lucky Shots on Bombers
Solaris - FAIL (on larger BS's at least)
Flak - FAIL (on larger bs's at least), and no, Escorts do not make up for the fail flak + solaris, for the LAST TIME.
Battle Razors --- Hit chance very very low on large BS's, that leaves just secondaries for defense, there.
' Wrote:The only downside i see are solaris, wich well don't wok very well if you have only 2... and 2 slots are better used by 2 more primaries.... So I agree with eppy a bit, solaris could get more range on battleships...
Well is it a problem of range or that you have only 2 since you have "allround" Osiris which has few slots?
Also I saw Megiddo kill 2 bombers, 3 titans and a GB at once all alone yesterday perhaps he'll share his thoughts?
I also saw a RM cruiser kill GB, 2 bombers and 1 Titan while under fire of all of them.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
' Wrote:Well is it a problem of range or that you have only 2 since you have "allround" Osiris which has few slots?
Also I saw Megiddo kill 2 bombers, 3 titans and a GB at once all alone yesterday perhaps he'll share his thoughts?
I also saw a RM cruiser kill GB, 2 bombers and 1 Titan while under fire of all of them.
Cruiser is abit different than battleship...smaller size..faster weapon projectile...
yesterday i tested BR again....only when bomber get close to you you can have chance to blow him apart (the only time i kill that bomber is he keep flying around me at very close range)..if he flys randomly and keep randomly throwing SNAC/Nova Torp at you...you are wasting energy.....
' Wrote:Well is it a problem of range or that you have only 2 since you have "allround" Osiris which has few slots?
Also I saw Megiddo kill 2 bombers, 3 titans and a GB at once all alone yesterday perhaps he'll share his thoughts?
I also saw a RM cruiser kill GB, 2 bombers and 1 Titan while under fire of all of them.
My thoughts: I got the impression that none of the pilots were very experienced. The bombers didn't strafe much at all. Nor did the bombers use the valid "tag team" tactic very well. Had the pilots been OPG, Brotherhood or Benitez, I would have probably been blown up or 2 pegs from death.
I also dropped 5 primaries and replaced them with secondaries, which also have a decent punch and reasonable energy consumption requirements. It was much easier to hit smaller, more evasive targets using the secondaries as "tracers". In addition, I don't have to put the turrets into weapon groups now, since the primaries' refire is 2 and the secondaries' 3.03.
For long range, anti-cap duties I have a normal mortar and 8 primaries. As long as I manage to hit consistently with the mortar, I should be ok.
What I do not get from all this bchfest, that has been going on for the last twenty eight pages, is not only why would you want to shoot fighters from a ship they can't hurt and is ment to deal massive damage on large targets, like other capital ships, stations or even planet bombardment, restock point for fighters and so on.
In my honest opinion is, that you dont weep about the weapons are changed and some of the game's aspects as well, it is a new mod, am I right? You should adapt to the new scenery, not ask for it to be changed. If you have problems adapting to the PvP aspect of the roleplay server, you can always find another 84 one, or, as i see, a 82 one.
I don't see why should you be wondering around alone on a Bs, those things cost so much, ofcourse you'd be supported by a fighter/bomber wing at all times, and dont spit into my face that escorts are useless, because they ARE useless, but that is the game mechanics, but in RP it makes more than perfect sense.
In a cap, you should be looking around in fear for an enemy bomber wing, or else the shipclass is a failure. I had my cruiser in 84 and i took down them with reletive ease and I am glad that now bombers are a true bane for capital ships. Sure it shouldn't be that one bomber or two can take down a BS, yet a few light fighters can always make their job easier.
So in general, how i see it, capitals and fighters are two seperate pvp zones, the exceptions are specilized caps (gunboats) and specilized fighters (bombers) who can attack the other zone. If you have problems with bombers, counter them with light fighters as that is why those little suckers are for.
Sindroms, the problem is that the solaris guns are worthless, and the fact we need to resort to the equivilent of a 5 inch cannon to shoot down bombers is quite sad. as for fighters, they can doge the shots MUCH easyer than a bomber can, and a bomber can still dodge them easily if he knows what hes doing. we arent making an issue that we cant utterly own them, we are making an issue that the balance is a little skewed due to weapon shortfalls in their intended roles.
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