PETITION: Nerf NPCs

[tazuras]

@sovereign - I understand oyur frustration but I think Mjolner is listening and thinking about what everyone is saying, if he wasnt I dont think he would be posting responses that specifically respond to most every point.

That being said I think it still applies that many of this issues are not related to NPC loadout, they are related to system design. The Pennsylvania issue for instance. If the patrols by the gate were weaker (which I believe is an option when designing the system) it would be fine. If the patrols by the gate were reduced by the gate it would be fine, this is a separate issue that would be better addressed than by nerfing all NPC's, which is the title of this thread.


@anyone that cant get away from NPC's without TCD's while flying transports - I can get away from The Wilde in S-13 while flying a transport and they have TCD's, they have never killed me, despite the very high power of their weapons. I really dont understand how you cant get away from them, I dunno, perhaps I am ignorant, if this is the case I would appreciate a more detailed explanation. And if you are talking about not being able to get away from NPC's that dont have TCD's in a transport, in my experience all I have to do is hit cruise, if one of their CD's happens to hit the sweet spot and actually disrupt my cruise I re-orient my ship relative to them and hit cruise again, works every time. Now perhaps this is an issue with smaller transports, as they may be easier to CD (i dont know, never flown one in .85). I suppose this is a valid concern. Though if the NPC strength in an area represents the strength the RP dictates they have in this area then maybe you should find a different route that is more appropriate to your RP. If the strength is disproportionate to their RP dictated strength in an area then again it is an issue of system design, the designer can choose different level NPC's to put in that area.


@Derkylos

Just flew my BH dessie from Delta to O-56 (scrapping it and getting a Manta, I'm fed up of it sitting around, eating all my cash and not doing anything...), and, as soon as I jumped from 41 to 15, I had about 8 Corsairs of varying types on me. I couldn't cruise, as they simply CDed me each time (that's a destroyer we're talking, here), and, due to my primarily anti-cap setup, I was unable to kill them quickly. They, in return, proceeded to drop my shield to about 1-2 bars as I tried in vain to do the e-kill+turn thing (what a surprise, doesn't work in big ships). When I eventually managed to get around and bring my guns to bear, I was able to slowly pick them off one by one (pulses do not great antifighter weapons make).

Interestingly, passing through the system, I later encountered 4 Hessians, which were unable to even make my shield wobble...

So you are saying that it was very hard to get a BH Dessie through Gamma, and it should not be hard? I think it should be pretty difficult, I think RP dictates it should be pretty difficult.

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[NerdRage]

i wish to double /signed this post

a standoff, 2 RFP vs 2 LWB, the NPC's swarm in and make it hard to RP
because were fending off the hordes of bundy stilletos or navy valkyries.

you chase a smuggler, some stupid unioners CD you

you have to go somewhere in a cap or something, and some GMG CD you, you try to enter cruizem even know you can kill 5000 of them without using regens, they continue to CD spam

you finally have enough creds to buy a new ship and make a char, you transferr all your funds into a flea, you get raped by a rogue gunboat because you are leevel 80 because of the amount of credits you have
(is it just me, or when you are hurrying somewhere, you get disrupted EVERY lane, but when casual trading you can make a round trip around sirius and not get disturbed once?)

i think NPC's are stupid and OORP, i think they should be stripped of their CD's and be slashed in number, its SPACE! there cant' be 10000 pirate patrols in every single sector, and the value that makes them say 'im outta here, its too tough' should be changed so 3NPC VHF = 1 PC LF
or 30 NPC VHF = 1 PC GB, ect ect ect

@taz, how do you do it! they fire a CD at you, you drop a CM it still gets you, i'm pissed of about when they DO catch you, they spam you till you give up and blow them to dust, then its too late. even if you drop 30 CM's the CD's radius or, at such close range the CD is not fooled and they continue to shoot you .

EDIT: about strong NPC's, i think their numbers should be slashed BUT they be made stronger, i think this applies forall NPC's, if their number were slashed but they were made stronger, , it would be like a player PVP, not being swarmed with minor flies, that would be more RP, pirate factions dont have very large populations or thousands and thousands of badly armed ships

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[sean24]

Therefore, nerf the caps. I like them having the shield, but when they start packing Razors and Mortars with that infinite powerplant of theirs I have an issue. Get rid of the razors and mortars at the very least.

Going back to Eppys point. I agree with NPC BS's not having razors, Inferno cannons etc. But I like it how stationary BS's have them. The Missouri is no longer a piece of art, it can kill, I like it how it spices up things around Norfolk but every NPC having the same armament's is quite ridiculous to say the least.

Also, (am I right in saying that the authorities attack us without warning if we have contraband on board? It happened to me) Around Manhatt, say were trying to get a cardi shipment onto the surface, LN dont have worry at all, they just sit and watch the NPC's own us in a few shots.

[tazuras]

@NerdRage - if I am in anything smaller than a transport then the only way I can get away from more than 2 or 3 NPC's is to either kill them till there are less then 3 or 4 or thrust out of range, cause they have weaker thrusters.

As for how caps fair against NPC's I havent encountered enemies in anything other than a GB or BS (as far as caps go) since .85 came out. The GB just pwn's fighters and bombers so thats not an issue and the BS I have never flown through hostile territory, not enough people in gallia to fight with it....

As for NPC's stopping you from pursuing a smuggler, as long as that was in an area that was supposed to be filled with those NPC's, like a cloud or field who's infocard says something about lots of pirates then i think it is great, it's exactly what should happen given the RP situation.

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[Derkylos]

As for NPC's stopping you from pursuing a smuggler, as long as that was in an area that was supposed to be filled with those NPC's, like a cloud or field who's infocard says something about lots of pirates then i think it is great, it's exactly what should happen given the RP situation.

But they don't, they spawn all over the place, next to New Berlin, attacking the planet in Hamburg...tough defences should be restricted to the locations where, in RP, it is tough to enter if you are a hostile. Not in "empty" space, and certainly not next to a friendly base.

@anyone that cant get away from NPC's without TCD's while flying transports - I can get away from The Wilde in S-13 while flying a transport and they have TCD's, they have never killed me, despite the very high power of their weapons. I really dont understand how you cant get away from them, I dunno, perhaps I am ignorant, if this is the case I would appreciate a more detailed explanation.

And what if a trader is dropped out of a lane by a player pirate and immediately encounters a couple of wings of hostile NPCs dropping his shield? Trader is not gonna be fleeing from them, as the player pirate wishes to conduct his RP session, pirating the trader. The trader is also not gonna be killing them, as that indicates hostile intent to the pirate. Way to kill pirating RP to "2mordai" "Ok".

@Derkylos
So you are saying that it was very hard to get a BH Dessie through Gamma, and it should not be hard? I think it should be pretty difficult, I think RP dictates it should be pretty difficult.

Please read again, it was in Omega-15, which contains a grand total of zero Corsair bases, one Bounty Hunter base and one Rheinland Military base...yet I encountered some 8 Corsairs, zero Bounty Hunters and zero RM. I did not actually enter Gamma with it.

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[tazuras]

But they don't, they spawn all over the place, next to New Berlin, attacking the planet in Hamburg...tough defences should be restricted to the locations where, in RP, it is tough to enter if you are a hostile. Not in "empty" space, and certainly not next to a friendly base.

Yes, this I agree is a little out of hand. I dont mind if they are there occasionally but when it is every time I dock/undock it's a little ridiculous. Still, this is an issue for another thread as it has to do more with system design than NPC equipment.

And what if a trader is dropped out of a lane by a player pirate and immediately encounters a couple of wings of hostile NPCs dropping his shield? Trader is not gonna be fleeing from them, as the player pirate wishes to conduct his RP session, pirating the trader. The trader is also not gonna be killing them, as that indicates hostile intent to the pirate. Way to kill pirating RP to "2mordai" "Ok".

Now this is interesting, I'm glad you brought this up. I think an encounter like this is just going to have to be RP'd differently from now on:
Trader: I'm not going to be able to pay you if your friends kill me.
Pirate: Hey, quit attacking my mark!
*pirate attacks NPC's*

Considering the rivalries between some of the Corsairs this seems reasonable for them at least. As for other pirates, the NPC's are violating their pirate code or something, perfectly reasonable RP excuse. Now this will give the trader a greater opportunity to escape but otherwise he would be dead and wouldnt pay the pirate.

The other option here is my proposed /neutral command that would stop the NPC's from attacking.

Please read again, it was in Omega-15, which contains a grand total of zero Corsair bases, one Bounty Hunter base and one Rheinland Military base...yet I encountered some 8 Corsairs, zero Bounty Hunters and zero RM. I did not actually enter Gamma with it.

Oops, sorry, must be tired. You forgot the junker base, this is where the Corsairs in the system base out of. I know because I took a million junker missions from it in .84, most of which were against corsairs, so they really hated me. I can see how this would be annoying and agree there should be a significant presence of both BHG and RM. I do know that in .84 there was this presence, at least to an extent. Regardless this is also more of a system design issue than an NPC loadout issue and should be in a different thread.

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[Derkylos]

Now this is interesting, I'm glad you brought this up. I think an encounter like this is just going to have to be RP'd differently from now on:
Trader: I'm not going to be able to pay you if your friends kill me.
Pirate: Hey, quit attacking my mark!
*pirate attacks NPC's*

Considering the rivalries between some of the Corsairs this seems reasonable for them at least. As for other pirates, the NPC's are violating their pirate code or something, perfectly reasonable RP excuse. Now this will give the trader a greater opportunity to escape but otherwise he would be dead and wouldnt pay the pirate.

The other option here is my proposed /neutral command that would stop the NPC's from attacking.

Shooting NPCs lowers the associated reputation, eventually losing you the tag...not really very appropriate, and my pirate is hardly gonna shoot her allies...

As for a command which turns all NPCs/bases in the system neutral...abusable much? Base camping caps which are neutral when they should be hostile? And what about traders landing on "enemy" bases. Not to mention using it in "special" systems (I'd love to fly through Iota while neutral to everything...).

I'm starting to think that it may be the location of NPC spawns rather than their abilities (mostly)...only problem is, changing the location of NPC spawns may have far more consequences than simply giving them lower quality equipment (re: mission locations, rep-fixing, etc), and would require an in-depth make-over of the current NPC spawn locations, to bring them into line with the current "accepted" RP actions.

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[dntredea1]

Caution:

I appreciate your wanting to nerf the NPCs in Gallia but if it happens make sure they're not too easy, or me and my cruiser would have too easy of a time.

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[tazuras]

First of all this is now Derkylos' and my thread, just so you all know;) j/k of course please keep adding your thoughts.

Shooting NPCs lowers the associated reputation, eventually losing you the tag...not really very appropriate, and my pirate is hardly gonna shoot her allies...

Allies that are effectively steeling from you. They sure dont seem to be acting like allies. As for the rep, so you gotta go kill some BHG or something to get it back where it should be, I don't think this is a huge problem.

As for a command which turns all NPCs/bases in the system neutral...abusable much? Base camping caps which are neutral when they should be hostile? And what about traders landing on "enemy" bases. Not to mention using it in "special" systems (I'd love to fly through Iota while neutral to everything...).

As I mentioned in the proposal this command would only make allies to it's users ID neutral to the targeted player. This way a member of the faction has to grant permission for safe passage. I also mentioned that it should be like the attack command so it can only be used in close proximity, so you cant do it for someone in another system or on the other side of the system you are currently in. I think that pretty much would cover the potential abuse.

I'm starting to think that it may be the location of NPC spawns rather than their abilities (mostly)...only problem is, changing the location of NPC spawns may have far more consequences than simply giving them lower quality equipment (re: mission locations, rep-fixing, etc), and would require an in-depth make-over of the current NPC spawn locations, to bring them into line with the current "accepted" RP actions.

This is true, only the dev team can make the decision on if this is worth it, but I think we should be proposing the changes that we feel would be best, not the ones that are easiest for them, so they can make an informed decision. If any developer disagrees or would like to comment on how feasible (or infeasible) this would be please feel free to do so.

//and now I go to bed, I'm sure I'll have something to reply to in the morning...

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[Daerune]

/Signed

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