' Wrote:First off, I'm laughing my head off at this thread. The mod is crafted to create a system very close to Sigma-13 in nature, and all hell breaks loose. Jien, if your only basis for wanting Okinawa under Kusari control is that it would be a beneficial thing, then you might as well bitch at us for control of Sigma-13 too. You say this:
Yet the same exact thing is the case with Sigma-13. Do you patrol Sigma-13? No, the GMG handles security there very well, and that helps the KNF. Quite honestly, you're handling this in a way that makes next to no sense within RP, and all stemmed off of LoTek saying "Afaik Okinawa is Kusari.", and you saying "Yeah, it's ours, nubs.".
As has been said over and over, you're at war, you get your fuel from us, Kishiro gets income from us. The GMG and Kusari are not allies, but we are partners. We help you, you help us. Hell, us keeping Sigma-13 under control helps you, since if we weren't handling pirates there, guess what you would have to do? Fight off Outcasts and Corsairs from another side. The same thing goes for Okinawa, yet suddenly you think that doing your own patrols is the best idea. Really? You're hilarious, bud.
Summed up: Kusari and the GMG have a partnership. We seldom aid each other in combat unless completely necessary, but we benefit from each other. That means you don't stomp around being a "royal" ass for whatever reason you might have told yourself and the KNF to justify it. Go for it if you want, but in the end the GMG isn't going to roll over and say "Okay, it's yours.". If you're so set on this, go ahead and send patrols into Okinawa all you want, just don't whine when they don't come back.
The situation is in your hands. Listen to the blaring RP and nurture the relationship that has been common sense since Vanilla, or create an ooRP war. Your choice, really.
Your whole argument makes you look like a fool. The KNF have every legal right to go into Sigma 13 or 19, or 17 for that matter. Just because we dont do it often doesnt mean we are not allowed. If you had actually read my argument, you might see that they are based in reality.
1) Okinawa is the best connection between two parts of Kusari, to expect that Kusari forces will accept not being allowed to go there, you know nothing about real world international relations.
2) The Proximity of the system and connections to planet Honshu, make it a very real security risk to the trade and bases in Honshu, Kusari space. The Pakistani government has been reluctant to allow US forces to operation in Pakistan to stem the flow of insurgents into Afghanistan as well as to take out cells based in Pakistan. Pakistan is sovereign, by the US still went in, without consulting the Pakistani Government and attacked those cells. Southern Lebanon is sovereign, hasnt stopped Israeli forces from going into that territory to take out Hezbulla forces. The same situation happens all over the world, and throughout history.
3) This FORCES Kusari to depend on the GMG to defend its border instead of being able to do it themselves. That is not a situation any government wants to be in.
4)Kusari gets fuel from the GMG and Samura, and would prefer to get it from Samura as to nurture it's own companies instead of outsiders.
5)The GMG have shown no willingness to work with Kusari on anything in a long time.
Why would Kusari go out of its way to support a project with all of that said. You can call me an ass all you want, and complain that my rp doesnt make sense, but those who are involved on my side support my comments, so it's not just me.
Quote:The KNF have every legal right to go into Sigma 13 or 19, or 17 for that matter. Just because we dont do it often doesnt mean we are not allowed.
No one said you couldn't step foot in Okinawa; now you're hopelessly exaggerating to turn a non-existant point against us. When have we ever said you could never enter Okinawa? Hell, when have we ever said you cannot pass through Okinawa? Your points are absurd; I told you, Kusari and the GMG are partners. You came around and claimed our space as your own, ignoring set information and the RP to back that up. There's nothing wrong with KNF passing though, the fault lies when you institute military patrols in foreign territory, and when confronted about it, try to cover your ass by calling it your space.
Alright, I've spoken to one of the guild masters over Skype, and it seems that this is becoming a large match of butting heads over a misunderstanding.
Orin, the main problem is that a KNF officer was supposedly kicked out of Okinawa while chasing a Kiretsu terrorist. This, frankly, is unacceptable to Kusari. It is nothing short of blatantly harboring criminals.
Furthermore, the system cannot be equated to Sigma-13 because Sigma-13 doesn't have the ridiculous Golden Chrysanthemum Battleship nor does it have the Blood Dragon complex. Neither of these bases are under any pressure what-so-ever from the GMG, and the Hogosha is focusing its eye against Interspace Commerce. If the KNF recognizes this, and the GMG fails to recognize the threat and contain it (Which I am quite confident they won't, due to player politics), then the KNF does have no choice but to get involved. That is currently happening, and instead of manifesting itself in an RP thread, we've created a head-bashing contest of giant proportions.
And no trade partnership is worth unsafe borders. If the GMG are harboring criminals as such, then it cannot be tolerated to do so without a fierce warning from the KNF.
On another note, in case the GMG does not heed the warning, to believe that the government does not have a stockpile in case of such a rainy day is simply folly. The wheels of industry in Kusari would not completely stop if the GMG decided to cut off the gas. This is not Barter Town in Mad Max. Industry would take a major blow, yes, and any offensive movements into Leeds would have to be halted, however, the Derby, York, and MacDuff fleets are all majorly smashed, and the BAF cannot undergo a major offensive even with Kusari in internal distress, or, at least not for a good while for the GMG to learn their lesson.
And at the end of the day, yes, Kusari does have final say over what the GMG does, because Kusari is the superpower, and GMG is the corporation. I hate to make an analogy to the IMG, as Blodo seems to have made it clear that he does not enjoy them, however, if the IMG decided to harbor Corsairs on Cardiff to honor their treaties versus the Outcasts, they would be in the same kind of trouble. In the same way they would be in trouble because they're they are a corporation, the GMG would be in trouble if they so defied the Kusari government. It isn't a goal of the Kusari government to cause this conflict, but, if a conflict is the only way to teach the GMG who is a House and who is a corporation, then a conflict will be had.
Now, instead of continuing this gaggle****, I suggest we move into an RP thread about the events relevant to this situation.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
' Wrote:Yet the same exact thing is the case with Sigma-13. Do you patrol Sigma-13? No, the GMG handles security there very well, and that helps the KNF. Quite honestly, you're handling this in a way that makes next to no sense within RP, and all stemmed off of LoTek saying "Afaik Okinawa is Kusari.", and you saying "Yeah, it's ours, nubs.".
Given that the KNF is supposed to push for its passage through Okinawa, if I understood it correctly from what Dab said (I think I went through all the previous topics about it also), it had to start somewhere..and if you read my previous comments in this topic, you'll have discovered that mine was a purely geographical reference.
My intent was to stimulate discussion to reach a civilized solution, maybe that was a mistake by my part as it wasn't clear and/or elaborated enough.
Anyway, it's as Hawkwings said mostly, I'm for letting this die and we'll come up with something more comfortable.
Lo
Quote:a KNF officer was supposedly kicked out of Okinawa while chasing a Kiretsu terrorist
I didn't factor that in so much, seeing as what the KNF said when he entered was "hi dragons in NT", "wanna come?", and; upon being questioned on what he was doing there; "on patrol".
' Wrote:Orin, the main problem is that a KNF officer was supposedly kicked out of Okinawa while chasing a Kiretsu terrorist. This, frankly, is unacceptable to Kusari. It is nothing short of blatantly harboring criminals.
This never happened. The KNF officer left on his own accord. He wasn't chasing the kiretsu either. He yelled at him from Kyushu and came over to Okinawa to track him down. The Kiretsu logged off, and the KNF gave up the search and logged off at the DSE Construction site.
I won't elaborate any more. This is ridiculous. Hatsumi didn't kick anyone out.
From the information we have been given, a KNF officer was kicked out of Okinawa during a chase with a Kiretsu terrorist. These are very serious accusations, especially after the GMG has proven that they have no intentions of assisting Kusari in this thread. In fact, after reviewing the vehemency that the GMG has exhibited defending its "Autonomy" and "Sovereignty", I am fare more inclined to believe the KNF in question than the GMG, who seem to believe they can do these things without any fear of retribution, and even seem to think they can stand against Kusari itself.
Quite honestly, it is folly to think that a corporation could stand against a House. I do believe we've gone over the history of the Eighty-Years-War before, and if you initiate hostilities with Kusari in such a fashion, you'll have no safehaven in which to hide as you did with Rheinland.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
I'm getting tired of the war bull, because that would be idiotic for either side. We've established that a million times, and it's not in discussion or thought by the GMG guild masters unless Kusari keeps throwing their weight into our space.
Point is, the GMG isn't stupid. If a KNF jumped into Okinawa and announced their presence and reason for being there, the GMG wouldn't do much in return. Death's character is a little more edgy due to his RP background, and as he has said that time and time again, you don't base the GMG's entire stance on his character. Point is, the KNF came in and said next to nothing, the only real conversation consisting of asking the GMG to come into Kusari space to shoot Dragons. If we want to criticize Death's actions, why don't we look at Diablo's, no?
Put short, come into Okinawa, tell us why you're there, and we probably won't do a thing unless you're claiming our space as your own and running "patrols". If you were chasing Kiretsu, tell us that. We might not love it, but the GMG is smart enough to bite their collective tongue for the greater benefit. It's when you call our space your space with no basis other than "I'm the Emperor, screw you." that the problems start.
That tone leads me to believe you did. I mean, you don't greet a friend with "What are you doing here?" I do believe you can trust me when I say I know how to play a jerk character, and that does not look like something he would say to a friend...
Furthermore, are we talking about the same person? I may look like the fool here, however, who exactly says it was you we're talking about? That is the story I received, and I am still more inclined to believe it than trust the GMG, who have shown no love for Kusari in any way, shape, or form...
EDIT: What right does a Kusari corporation have to tell Kusari what to do, also? We're a House, you're a corporation. What about this is so hard to understand? We CAN hold our muscle over you, because WE HAVE IT. You do not.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
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