Athenian, I'm sorry to continue this arguement in spite of the fact that you have already pointed out that it is grossly off topic in the other post, and has probably been beaten to death in the past, but I cannot stand by and not respond to a blatant attack of my character and roleplaying abilities. More specifically by the one who hijacked that thread in the first place. Further, I think the point of that thread is hopelessly lost at this stage, and see no chance of it returning to the previous topic. That being said, there are a few things that I would like to clear up before this is over, so that it does not become a problem again in future threads.
' Wrote:As far as the rules are concerned it is not. An attack is described as draining shields to 50% or firing a CD, neither of which have occurred at the time you drop out of a tradelane.
Being dropped out of a trade lane comes with the presumption that I am, in fact, being CD'd. Anyone and everyone the first thing they do is attempt to go to cruise before they are hit. Basic elementary. Flight before fight is much more profitable. I appologize if I was not clear. That being said, if the pirating character does, in fact, use a CD on me, then it is they, themselves, who are in violation of the PVP before RP clause, and frankly, if they don't immediately CD me, then they won't capture me, and I guarantee that is exactly what they are going to do. Therefore, it cannot be said that I am any more wrong for opening fire immediately on said pirate at the point of dropping out of a trade lane, especially in an instance where I have been pirated by the said person, or said person is well know to be engaging in pirate activities.
Quote:
You might have an RP reason behind why you shoot pirates as soon as your drop out, but to us you're nothing more than a power trader who would rather die than pay pirates because its' cheaper to rebuy your cargo.
I would not rather die than pay pirates because it's cheaper to rebuy my cargo. In fact, by shooting first, I do not even know whether it will be cheaper or not. Further, in many situations, I will pay a ransom on cargo. I have already stated this before. Do not mistake my tactics for greed, "Nighthawk", because if you were to ask anyone who I have RPed with they would surely tell you I am no scrooge. Besides, "Rather die than pay pirates" implies that I expect to lose, which I do not.
Quote: You can have th best RP in the world, but if you don't share it with anyone then it's worth nothing. That's not the impression you want to be giving on an RP server. Hell, even saying "You'll never take my cargo!" Before opening fire would be at least something.
And when did I ever say I do not RP with pirates? 75% of the time I will make it to cruise speed, and then RP will insue. (given that the pirate in question doesn't break into OOC rules lolyering.) The other 25% I will end up in a pod, another excellent chance for roleplay. Something I think few realize, however, is that roleplay doesn't necessarily require text. Simple positioning and facing, movement, and all other action is just as in character as what we write in system chat, and the majority of the time, it is more so.
Quote:You can argue as long as you want, but your argument does not excuse you from the rules, which state that Roleplay must precede an engagement.
/setmsg is also no excuse. It promotes poor roleplay. "2 mil r dai" is something we try to avoid.
For example:
There he was, traveling through the cold tradelanes of Tau-31, the metallic rush of the lane rings rushing past. He'd run this route so may times, he could do it with his eyes closed. Each ring he passed like a syncopated metronome counting down the seconds until he reached the next jump gate. There were 8 left in the lane... 7.... ..... .... After 3 seconds he knew something was amiss. Quickly, he opened his eyes and took his feet down from the control panel to find two signatures on the radar, both a klick and a half off. Knowing he'd already lost so many precious seconds he quickly banked a sharp left across the trade route and hit his thrusters a hard pulse to put some distance between them before he attempted to reenter cruise. The entire plan he had rehearsed a thousand times before this, yet already he heard his dash chiming that nightmarish sound.
"Incoming Missile."
The ship lurched at the sudden lack of momentum, the entire hull grinding as simultaneously every rivet tried to go two directions at once, forward and reverse. It would be a full 15 seconds before he made it back to cruise speed at best, and that was provided that he wasn't hit again with another WASP missile. He needed to buy some time.
Quickly, he killed his impulse engines and fired the thruster hard, once again adjusting his vector, then giving the helm a hard spin, he sent the ship swirling in an unpredicable spiral as he made his way to the turrets. Gaskets blown from coolant pipes leaked freezing vapors into the halls of the ships cabin, and the turning ship set him against the walls as he struggled to get to the weapons helm. As he plopped down in the chair, he made a rookie mistake, grabbing the trigger switch and sending a salvo of unaimed shots into the void, warning the two fighters of his intentions to fight, but he quickly gained control and brought the crosshairs to a lock on the nearest fighter and in one well aimed pass downed the shield of the vessel and sent bits of it's hull tracing off behind the rounds. The second fighter launched two well aimed torpedos into the rear of the trade vessel in retaliation for his injured friend, and the trade ship's shields buckled under the sheer force of the blast instantly.
The trader knew, however, that those two missiles had completely drained his foes energy reserves, and it would be a full ten seconds before he could repeat the attack. He had angered the pirates, and now they had acted far to hastily, he had purchased the time that he needed. He fired a quick burst at the first fighter again, followed closely by a WASP missile of his own to keep the fighter from giving chase. Then, reaching up above the weapons console, diverted auxilliary piloting procedures to the combat deck. He reared back, and with a full fisted punch, shattered the protective glass casing of the emergency cruise switch, then immediately began to empty his entire hold of countermeasures. 10... 9... 8... Another torpedo crashed into his ship, blowing out the hull in his cargo bay and turning it into a vaccum. 7... 6... 5... The trader pointed his ship straight down the Z vector in an attempt to dodge the blaster fire that was now eating into his hull. 4... 3... 2... still he continued to dump counter measures into space, his last hope for getting away. 1... "Incomming Missile." But it was too late.... He was gone. He looked at the shrinking image of the fighters as the struggled to enter cruise, but he had already made so much distance that he knew he was safe. In the entire thirty seconds that comprised the fight, he realized that he had not taken a breath until now. A deep, heavy sigh of relief.
As you can see, 30 seconds of combat is worth 30 minutes of conversation, and it is just as much a part of roleplay as any conversation that occurs before or after. By denying a trader the ability to defend himself immediately in the face of a pirate attack, you ensure his capture at the hands of whatever Rats are trying to get a hold of his cheese. And is it fair, you ask, that a trader can fire immediately and without text, when a pirate must initiate what you have so exclusively labeled as "RP"? Absolutely. You're a pirate. If you just blast down any trader you see without at least giving them the oportunity to fork over the cash, you will never make a profit enough to pay for the cruise disruptors you will inevitably use. Further, you stand to make much more profit in the off chance that a trader does in fact settle on your terms. However, it is in a traders best intrest to take immediate action, because every second of hesitation gives you, the pirate, more time to get into position and ensure his lack of escape.
Further, there is likely to be much more gloating and bickering after an event such as the affore mentioned that, if done ICly, will last much longer and be quite the more entertaining than, "Give me all your money!" "Okay, just don't shoot me." "Thank you for your patronage, now get out of my face." Thank you for not shooting me."
Noone ever said, at least to my knowledge, that your RP is inadequate. And noone said it's out of RP to go killing the pirate who tries to pirate you. Makes sense.
What I do mind, however, is justifying everything with the fact that it makes RP sense. It makes RP sense to kill people without notice, yet we do not do it.
And if someone fires on a pirate without even dropping a line of RP, yeah, I *will* consider him not a very good role player. Because frankly, I don't see how it's good to kill people while they're trying to type.
And telling the pirate to use /setmsg is not very productive. I actually want to RP, and not use a preset line which I reproduce over and over again.
I don't care if you'll try to run before saying anything first. Be my guest.
But if someone kills a pirate who's trying to type out RP without even saying anything, is in my own opinion, with a very non-roleplaying attitude, and downright dirty.
<span style="font-familyalatino Linotype">
<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.
Why do people continue to whine and flog a dead horse, really. All it does is create resentment in the community.
The rules are the rules for reasons.
One reason is that you have to strike a balance between RP and gameplay.
Is it RP for people to go into a station and buy an entire Dreadnaught?
No.
Is it more fun for people to go into a station and buy an entire Dreadnaught?
Yes.
The game itself compromises the RP for gameplay with OORP things.
The rules reflect that in a way. They provide the structure for a well thought out RP world while also ensuring that people enjoy themselves responsibly.
Whining in public about people attacking your RP skills is just making it worse. Take it to a private chat if you have issues with someone, or an Admin if it truely is terrible.
Quote:Athenian, I'm sorry to continue this arguement in spite of the fact that you have already pointed out that it is grossly off topic in the other post, and has probably been beaten to death in the past, but I cannot stand by and not respond to a blatant attack of my character and roleplaying abilities.
Then take it to PMs, don't post on the forums.
Quote:[7:42:05 PM][6:51:36 PM] Igor (Smokey): btw terry
[6:51:48 PM] Terrance Cooper: Ye?
[6:52:00 PM] Igor (Smokey): nothin
[6:52:03 PM] Igor (Smokey): just sayin btw
[6:52:05 PM] Terrance Cooper: <_<
Quote:Johnny_Haas: you shot anti criuse speed rockets!!!
Johnny_Haas: but why????
Johnny_Haas: ??
Johnny_Haas: why you shoot criuse speed rockets?
First off, Elgato, this has been a long running conversation that was started by Nighthawk in a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with this. I posted a new thread because, as Athenian said, it was off topic. I think it is a perfectly acceptable resolution, because now we can continue the conversation without hijacking someone elses thread, and you can't have a converstation with multiple people in PM.
Continuing.
' Wrote:Noone ever said, at least to my knowledge, that your RP is inadequate. And noone said it's out of RP to go killing the pirate who tries to pirate you. Makes sense.
Nighthawk did.
Quote:to us you're nothing more than a power trader who would rather die than pay pirates because its' cheaper to rebuy your cargo.
Quote:What I do mind, however, is justifying everything with the fact that it makes RP sense. It makes RP sense to kill people without notice, yet we do not do it.
And if someone fires on a pirate without even dropping a line of RP, yeah, I *will* consider him not a very good role player. Because frankly, I don't see how it's good to kill people while they're trying to type.
By no means do I intend to kill someone while they are typing. If you're sitting there counting down, it's one thing, hell yeah i'll kill you. But I will attempt to cruise first, before I open fire, then I will go to thrusters if I can't cruise, while firing. There is no trade ship that puts out enough damage to down a bomber in the time it takes to cancel out of typing and take evasive action. That's rediculous.
Quote:And telling the pirate to use /setmsg is not very productive. I actually want to RP, and not use a preset line which I reproduce over and over again.
I don't care if you'll try to run before saying anything first. Be my guest.
But if someone kills a pirate who's trying to type out RP without even saying anything, is in my own opinion, with a very non-roleplaying attitude, and downright dirty.
Finally, my intentions are not to kill the pirate, they are to get away. I may, in the process of trying to escape, kill a pirate at some point, maybe. But I will never give away that first 30 seconds to the pirate to type in a message when i could potentially escape. My escape, or the lack there of, provides much more opportunity for roleplay, as I explained in the first post.
' Wrote:First off, Elgato, this has been a long running conversation that was started by Nighthawk in a thread that had absolutely nothing to do with this. I posted a new thread because, as Athenian said, it was off topic. I think it is a perfectly acceptable resolution, because now we can continue the conversation without hijacking someone elses thread, and you can't have a converstation with multiple people in PM.
Continuing.
Nighthawk did.
By no means do I intend to kill someone while they are typing. If you're sitting there counting down, it's one thing, hell yeah i'll kill you. But I will attempt to cruise first, before I open fire, then I will go to thrusters if I can't cruise, while firing. There is no trade ship that puts out enough damage to down a bomber in the time it takes to cancel out of typing and take evasive action. That's rediculous.
Finally, my intentions are not to kill the pirate, they are to get away. I may, in the process of trying to escape, kill a pirate at some point, maybe. But I will never give away that first 30 seconds to the pirate to type in a message when i could potentially escape. My escape, or the lack there of, provides much more opportunity for roleplay, as I explained in the first post.
Why do I care about what Nighthawk said to you?
Anyways, since you're "not planning to type kill pirates", why did you oppose my statements in that chat, since they were all directed at how you should not type-kill pirates.
What stops you from RPing with a pirate, really?
Anyways, for those like yourself, I used to just go with the "die die die" treatment. Don't be surprised if every other pirate out there does the same.
It's eventually much more profitable if you just go RP with a pirate and decrease the price significantly, than just try to run and get yourself killed in 90% of cases.
It's your call.
<span style="font-familyalatino Linotype">
<span style="color:#000000">All morons hate it when you call them a moron.
I agree actually, traders who do little more than engage cruise, thrust and fire their pew pew guns make for a delightful alternative to those who force me to endure tedious "interaction".
I mean, heck, I might actually be put into a position where I have to explain my motives. Something I haven't been made to reflect on for months untold. The whole affair would be thoroughly awkward.
' Wrote:Why do I care about what Nighthawk said to you?
Anyways, since you're "not planning to type kill pirates", why did you oppose my statements in that chat, since they were all directed at how you should not type-kill pirates.
What stops you from RPing with a pirate, really?
Anyways, for those like yourself, I used to just go with the "die die die" treatment. Don't be surprised if every other pirate out there does the same.
It's eventually much more profitable if you just go RP with a pirate and decrease the price significantly, than just try to run and get yourself killed in 90% of cases.
It's your call.
I'm not opposing your statements, I'm just trying to be clear on my intentions. Further, i expect you to care as much about what Nighthawk said to me as I do. Little. But you asked. Also, nothing stops me from RPing with a pirate, in fact, just the opposite, I fully intend to RP with the pirate, just not when he drops me out of a trade lane. Maybe after he catches me, if he doesn't kill me, which is his choice, and I won't hold it against him. What I am trying to express, however, is that RPing with a pirate doesn't necessarily mean, and in most cases shouldn't, mean rolling over and forking up the cash. I don't care if it's more profitable or not to give them what they want. That's not the point. It's the thrill of the chase, and the bickering afterwards, that is much more enjoyable than getting to my destination safe and sound, and the first 30 seconds are crucial.
Swift, you're alright in my book. I respect your opinion, and have enjoyed talking about all of this. If you will notice, the original post was in no way directed at you. However, you were part of the conversation in the previous thread, and I thought you should be included, especially since you provide much more rational arguements in your post. Please don't mistake my disagreement for disdain.
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