Should official factions have more power?

[tazuras]

Additionally official factions should be granted some powers that make indies want to play with them even if they dont want to join. Perhaps a system scan command that will list the grid co-ordinates of everyone in an area they control, this would be realistically do-able by satellite scanners in most house systems and in some independent space. Perhaps an OORP docking prevention command. I dunno.

Oh oh, I though of another one. Official factions can have access (on a limited basis of some sort) to all those lovely RP commodities that were added this version.

I think we should try to come up with some other things they can do and powers they can have to do them to help indies who dont roleplay or who need more opportunities for practice.

@Ktayn - Yeah, I would also like to hear those question answered...

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[Linkus]

If official factions who claim to be the entire NPC faction get more power, they should be put under another round of community scrutiny.

In my view, there should be no player faction that controls the entire NPC faction.

This is a game, I come here to enjoy myself. If I want to go buy a battleship then I will go buy one. I don't want to spend months trying to work up a damn faction ranking system just to get my hands on a ship that I may only use infrequently anyway.
Pretty much the most important thing to me in Discovery is the freedom you have to RP things the way you want, as long as they are within the server rules. If I want an Order Osiris to go off to the far reaches of Sirius on research missions, I'll do it. If someone can logically prove that it would be more useful elsewhere, I would go there instead.


Giving more power to Official factions to control the system they own would make sense though. Move the guard restricted ships to ANOTHER system. It can be one that already exists even. It is not hard to place a station with guard rep and some guard NPC patrols around it in a normal system and it achieves the EXACT same effect that guard systems have in reducing cap numbers currently.
Let Official factions have total control over their system and to enforce whatever laws they want within it.
I mean, why not? Guard systems tend not to be used in trade runs and you only go there with intention and with the guard ID required ships moved or available elsewhere too, it eliminates that issue completely.

However, the more power that is given to player factions to 'control' independant players, the more restricted the independant players are and overall, the less fun they will have. All it does is actively encourage bullying.

Why the hell should a player have to work his way up the ranks of a faction, that only has power because they were there first, for months simply to roleplay a role he probably now has completely lost interest in?


People being idiots in OOC ways should be dealt with in OOC ways. Not by a faction.
What's to stop a faction simply saying 'You can't do that, it goes against the roleplay we made up and since we are the entire faction, you are then subject to this' and going off and blasting them?
Nothing.
Giving them that control just encourages power abuse and solves a problem in a way that, while less work for the Admins, could be and IS already dealt with by sanctions.

I really don't see why a player faction would really want to be the entire NPC faction anyway. They have less freedom in their roleplay simply because they are completely tied to the NPC faction roleplay already set down.

I hope this doesn't come off as biased by the way, I have more faction characters than independants.

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Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.

[Klaw117]

After hearing what everyone around the community has been saying, I am starting to notice that official factions have no real power anymore. Sure, they may get message dumps and stuff, but is that really necessary? It seems more worth it to remain an unofficial faction right now. Official factions should have some sort of authority over others. I know we don't want them to boss around other people, but they should also have some form of authority to show that they are different from unofficial factions and have been given admin approval.

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Carlos Rivera: Corsair Brotherhood Pirate - Retired, shifted to Tripoli Shipyard's Research and Development engineering teams
Anthony Cameron: Guild Core Bounty Hunter - Killed in Action, committed suicide after being trapped in Omicron Minor following its destruction
Juan Ruiz: Outcast Ghost of Razgriz Pirate - Killed in Action, killed by the Sirius Coalition Revolutionary Army during Bretonian piracy raid
Michael Winchester: Liberty Security Force Agent - Missing in Action, likely killed during Rheinland espionage mission or trapped in Rheinland Space
Eric McCormick: Order Pilot - Retired, shifted to planetside training of new recruits

Liberty and Nomad Backstory, Very interesting - read it!

[Athenian]

@ Linkus: You don't have to climb ranks in all factions to gain access to a capital ship. I couldn't care less what people choose to fly so long as they don't act like nubtards when they play.


edit:
from a skype chat
[01:18:40] (Athenian) aka Colm: What more powers could factions have?
[01:18:45] (Athenian) aka Colm: honestly
[01:19:00] Dusty Lens: 1) Controll over the remote
2) First call to the fridge
[01:19:35] (Athenian) aka Colm: aside from **** registration threads and paranoia over the fact that someone else is in a spaceship associated with the faction
[01:19:48] Dan K (Tazuras): more control over indies?
[01:20:05] (Athenian) aka Colm: You cant ever control people
[01:20:20] (Athenian) aka Colm: without making yourself look like a ****
[01:20:21] Dan K (Tazuras): you can if you threaten them, sometimes...
[01:20:25] Dan K (Tazuras): heh
[01:20:31] Dan K (Tazuras): >>edited<<
[01:20:32] (Athenian) aka Colm: Threats alienate and antagonise people
[01:20:40] Dan K (Tazuras): >>edited<<
[01:21:05] (Athenian) aka Colm: so give faction leaders the power to impose sanctions when they want
[01:21:12] Dan K (Tazuras): oh gosh no
[01:21:47] (Athenian) aka Colm: "Player X has flown a gunboat into our furball. account IP banned. **** squad sent to his mothers house."
[01:21:47] Dusty Lens: [01:21] (Athenian) aka Colm: so give faction leaders the power to impose sanctions when they want

<<<
[01:22:28] Dan K (Tazuras): give them power to change ID's from a faction ID to a new ID that is a rogue faction ID and has a different set of rules!
[01:22:53] Dan K (Tazuras): so there will be rogues LN's and rogue orders and rogue everyone else
[01:22:56] Dan K (Tazuras): mwahahaahaha
[01:23:09] Dan K (Tazuras): rogue rogues!
[01:23:18] (Athenian) aka Colm: "Player Y wasnt inspiring enough in his cruiser. Fined all credits. Parcel of anthrax sent to his house. Eat ****t buddy!"
[01:23:28] (Athenian) aka Colm: I like the idea of rogue IDs
[01:23:41] (Athenian) aka Colm: but players could just ditch them
[01:23:49] Dan K (Tazuras): they would be Locked!
[01:23:53] Dan K (Tazuras): i dunno
[01:24:21] Dan K (Tazuras): i thought there was an outlaw ID at one point that was if you got sanctionsed or something that you couldnt ditch...
[01:26:33] (Athenian) aka Colm: i like it
...........
[01:27:36] Dan K (Tazuras): well... I know you cant launch without a scanner... soo you could make another slot that was like a scanner slot that started out with a blank item but could be turned into a rogue ID with some sort of command, so if you ditched it you couldnt launch that character...
[01:27:47] Dan K (Tazuras): and you wuold have to delete it...
[01:28:00] Dan K (Tazuras): of course this would be printed on the ID
[01:29:59] Dan K (Tazuras): are you posting my idea?
[01:30:24] (Athenian) aka Colm: its a great idea
[01:30:35] (Athenian) aka Colm: I declare you rogue
[01:30:38] Dan K (Tazuras): heh, alright, just give me credit if you would please
[01:30:43] (Athenian) aka Colm: you post it
[01:30:48] Dan K (Tazuras): either way
[01:30:55] Dan K (Tazuras): I'll post it if you want
[01:31:03] (Athenian) aka Colm: ill cut and paste this into it
[01:31:08] Dan K (Tazuras): yay!
[01:31:20] Dan K (Tazuras): you are now officially awesome
[01:31:32] Dan K (Tazuras): i thought so before, but now i know for sure

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Linkus]

Unfortunately Athenian, not every faction leader is like you.

A lot of factions implement limits on capital ships by rank. In essence it is a flawed concept. Someone who is completely useless in a fighter won't advance as quickly as someone who is brilliant in a fighter, if they are both equally good otherwise that is. The fighter ace could be just that though and infact useless in a capital ship, while the useless fighter pilot might be fantastic in a capital ship.
A standard limit on the capital ships might be more useful, all based on merit and other characteristics.

The ships thing was one part of my points though.
If I want to go fly an Osiris in Bretonia, doing research on Chester or whatever (Might be a bit silly in actuality, just an example though) then I will go do it. I don't want some faction member saying 'You can't do that, because we say so' Even if there is a perfectly good reason they could still do that.

EDIT: In regards to Rogue ID's.

'You are not following our RP, you are now Rogue!'
Power abuse central is easily possible.

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Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.

[tazuras]

Yes, to elaborate I dont think changing an ID to a rogue ID should just be a simple command. I think either it should have to go through a process, like a sanction does (through the FRC maybe?) or it has to be a command that has to be used more than once.

Say any one of the higher ranking members of a faction can use this /rogue command. They can only use it in proximity and can only use it once every x minutes/hours/day. When used it will raise a characters rogue level, or rogue reputation, as you could make it part of the rep system if you wanted. The level would decrease over time but if it got over a certain level, poof, there goes your regular ID and you are stuck with a rogue ID.

If the player disagrees with it, they can appeal it to the FRC, and the official faction will have to prove the player earned the rogue ID. If the player wants to shape up then the faction and the player can ask the FRC to switch it back. The player alone can also ask to have it switched back, but will have to go through an extended process without the support of the faction.

EDIT: I would again like to emphasize that the FRC would not be making decisions based off of their opinion of the situation, they would be making them based off of a concise and thorough set of rules and guidelines. When voting they should probably be required to cite the rules they feel apply to justify their vote. In the beginning there will probably also need to be an admin present to help clarify and revise the guidelines when a situation comes up that they do not adequately address.


PS. I realize this is a somewhat far-fetched idea, but it is just an idea, perhaps it can be used to come up with some less far-fetched ideas. Feel free to provide feedback though.

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[sovereign]

Before I answer the question posed by the poll, I'd like to go over what factions have currently.

I am aware that they get the following:

• A spot in the Faction Status Thread saying what they do
  
• A thread in the faction feedback forum
  
• A thread in the Message Dumps section, as opposed to the general section
  
• A thread in the faction recruitment forum
  
• The capacity to purchase a system, request very specific and mostly cosmetic changes to it, but by no means restrict it or its contents except in some vaguely defined cases (how much of this is rule and how much will just get you flamed massively is a different question altogether)
  
• The continual scrutiny of the playerbase, and massive flaming if they do "bad" things (which, at least in my experience, do not normally receive such treatment when done by "ordinary" players)
  
• Respect from some other official factions and some players- for what that's worth, see below
  

That's all that comes to mind.

From previous sanctions and rulings, I have gathered that factions cannot determine or adjust policy in light of a changing environment, exert authority over troublemakers (while some cases are debatable, there are a few that could have been solved with far less hard feelings if factions had any authority) or even exert authority over people whose actions reflect on their own reputations (see the Liberty Navy at any point in the past year). In addition, they cannot claim any actions of theirs as "canon", nor influence the development process in any direct fashion (while a faction requesting a ship may end up with a dev making a ship with them in mind, they cannot ask for a ship and have someone tasked to make it).

In exchange for the (fairly limited all things considered, in my opinion) rights above, official factions have the following responsibilities:

• To inform people that they have scolded their members in the event of sanctions and such... but not to necessarily do anything about it with repeat offenders or the like (I could name examples but that would be bad form)
  
• To sit pretty and play nice for everyone else on pain of flaming and sanctions, regardless of how nicely (or not) people play with them and/or whether or not people are demolishing their reputation
  
• As of a year or two ago, to pay 500 million credits as a down payment for aforementioned system or (apparently) a Barge
  
• To maintain numbers, as well as an up to date diplomacy list (but only sometimes)
  

My facts are getting muddled with my impressions, which I'm sure are becoming clear.

I cannot accurately vote on whether or not official factions should have more power until all of their privileges and responsibilities until they are codified. In addition to an official, admin-endorsed listing of what Official Factions can do, can't do, and must do, I'd like to make sure that the entire admin team is either in agreement or at least aware of it. For any of you who remember when Igiss (briefly) doubted the authority of the Faction Status Thread and a green stamp in the Faction Creation Requests forum as a means of determining whether or not a faction was official, I'm sure you will agree that there needs to be full communication here (and there are plenty of touchier examples that I will not go into here). As a last thing, I'd like to have "strong suggestions" (i.e. things you are expected to do but can waive as necessary) listed and some sort of guarantee that out-of-character attacks on actions listed in aforementioned decree as "can do" will be dealt with until they stop. I personally do not plan on placing restrictions or anything like that on Bundschuh players (not that there are any to oppress if I did) but I've seen the psychological effects of people being torn down for trying to do what they thought was their responsibility. It really isn't a pretty thing.

Thank you for reading, and my apologies for getting opinionated a bit earlier than I had intended.

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[Sarawr!?]

I don't think official factions should have any more power than the power they have now.

as I see it, some of the 'Official' factions, without naming names, do quite a poor job of RP'ing as the faction they are supposed to represent, so why give them the power to boss around non official faction members who might possibly RP.

So, I voted no, Official Factions should have no more power than what they have now.

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio

[Grumblesaur]

It really depends on the faction.
Checks and balances. Each side has rights and can use them to counter the opposing side if they toe out of line.

I vote "Yes" on this condition.

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[tazuras]

Alright, one last idea for now (see what happens when you take away my distraction (FL), I go back to my default mode of shouting out crazy ideas).

Anyway, what if this council also handed out rewards for exceptional RP. Players would be nominated by other players, they would have to provide transcripts of the in game RP with descriptions and reasing and submit it much like a sanction report, they would be invisible to everyone bet the council. Then using a rubric the council would determine if it merited a reward and what reward. Rewards could include cash, RP items, and code weapons. Rewards could also be limited in the frequency they are given out. This would be the first external reward for good in game RP on this server, other than getting kudos and player charity of course.

PS. If the council took on this responsibility or ones regarding factions it should probably be called something more like the RPAC - Role Play Administrative Council/Commission.

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