Trading in .85 - a poll

[CCI45-px/Probe149]

Well Xoria. You know every single traderoute there is, because you created them. Easy for you to change them. We normal people don't know them all.

Profits down->pirats ask for less? Wut? New to me. I've seen noone changing their pirating attitude and ask for less.

Question 1 - Do you like the new RP trade routes?
I see many of them going through Embargos. Shouldn't be like this. This is only encouraging "Zoner" traders and Indy traders, which i think shouldn't have been the case. Instead, corporations should get a boost.
Sorry, but if you're running through a blockade and thus get yelled at by the Law and your trading faction gets a bad rep.... not so good.
Looking onto RepEx shipping list, i see 6 routes going through the Kusari/Bretonia problematic zone. 3 which don't do so. I feel like it should be the other way round. Well, maybe some weren't added.


Question 2 - What do you think about the cash per hour these routes generate?
Those i fly are good enough for keeping money for my ships. However, if i want a new ship, i have a problem. I get bored by trading very fast. One complete circle and i go elsewhere. I don't know if i would trade more if i'd see more for the time i spend trading ---- either by having more $$$ from the trading, or the Creds beeing worth more (equipment/ships cheaper)


Question 3 - How do you compare trading in .85 to trading in .84?
-Do you think trading is much more fun now?
As said above, i get bored by trading fast. Ok, i change my trading ship then, but....

-Do you think there have been some improvements, but there still are some things that need to be fixed?
There have been improvements. Like no longer lolraders in Chugoku. And many routes are in RP to fly. However, some factions need more love with the routed they have. May it be via FLHook giving them bonuses tied towards IFF/ID, or with new routes which make sense for them to fly.

-Do you think trading in .84 was much better?
No.

Question 4 (post only) - Is there anything not covered by the 3 questions above which you would like to mention, to see changed or improved?
<strike>Perhaps if i think about it for a night, i can say something here. For now, all is covered with my statements above.</strike>

More vote options.
"Yes, but...."
"No, but....."
With the current options, i can't seem to find any option fitting for me.

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In a brilliant tactical movement, i charged backwards.

[FooFighter]

...

If profit was the only problem with your trade system, your suggestion re: lowering ship/equipment prices would surely work out quite well. The community has pointed out quite a few other problems as well - for example the fact that corporate traders are at a real disadvantage when compared to these Zoner Guard powertraders. Sure, it's nice to sell terraforming gasses at some Freeport in the Omicrons - but you won't see Planetform going there, that's for sure (I know, Planetform, Planetform - it's just the faction I know most about regarding trade routes).

[Cellulanus]

Most of the new trade routs are completely inaccessible for corporate traders, I feel somewhat left out and feel that I pretty much HAVE to make a Zoner transport or Indie transport to get access to any of the good routs, or stick with my attempted RP corporate routs.

[Dashiell]

In my case, it`s simple: in my Bowex ship I can`t reel in enough money to cover the costs of ammo, equipment, armorupgrades and new characters. I HAD to make a smuggler to generate additional income.

now, I perfectly understand Xoria`s issue. spending another huge amount time to redo it all over again is hardly productive.

so then, I for one, am a big patron for lower prices of ships and equipment. make a credit worth more and the problem is solved. the way things are now, I constantly have the thought in the back of my head that I can`t do what I want due to money issues.

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[Shaka]

I'm just going to toss this into the air Ok?

I mine. I mean seriously, I pew pew rocks for hours on end. However, profits are decent, mining ships are cheap, and no pirate wants a load of Niobium.

The only other money making scheme I have is a rarely used (and soon to be scrapped) slave liner. Because of my refusal to use trade lanes, I would say that the miner actually makes money faster.

Basically, in 4.84 we were all against powertraders. It's my understanding that these quick and dirty routes have been destroyed, replaced by equally profitable, but longer routes. Essentially, we all lost the ability to make a quick buck when we needed it.

The other problem I see with these longer routes is the number of obstacles standing in one's way. On paper some of these routes look good, but doing them in RP can significantly lessen the profits. I.E. blockade running, avoiding lanes and gates. The large number of wars that are currently ongoing make things difficult. Even worse, almost all unlawful factions are polarized to one side or another of this outcast/corsair fight.

To conclude, trading now has much more depth and RP than before. However, this adds a lot of difficulty and hassle for those looking to make a bit of money quickly. As well, I think the new mod release has stirred a lot of people to make new purchases, increasing the number of people trying to make massive amounts of money.

The solution? I don't know. This new system is certainly better. In many ways it improves the atmosphere. Traders are the basic denizens around which a lot of players (pirates, cops, navy) congregate around. Now, there are more traders than ever. Traders breath life into systems. Yet, traders are focussed into a few systems, despite the fact that there are routes everywhere. This generally poor knowledge of trade routes needs to be improved. In RP, a corporate trader would be fulfilling his contracts, knowing where to go; there would be no aspect of "discovery". Perhaps we should publish some of these routes to encourage a "spreading out" of sorts? I think that that action would certainly alleviate many people's concerns.

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RFP File |Josef Marks' Story|Feedback

[Benjamin]

Big hint : mining machinery and robotic components are the key to switching between one trade circuit and another circuit.

Yeah I don't want to sound too much like a broken record and the same everyone else, but I think this highlights a problem. While the money is fine and all that, not everyone 'can' haul mining machiners and robotic components. Like I said before, my main traders are a junker, a cryer and an OS&C. I guess the junker can haul those. Cryer and robotic components maybe. But my OS&C lux liner?

Grimly's point about the liberty-focus is not at all bad either. Liberty factions are all big enough anyway, and as a pirate out in Rheinland, feels like we're being choked out a bit. There's basically just the one line through Rheinland, and it isn't particularly high-traffic. You can sit on it easily enough, but you wont see that many people, and any lawful knows exactly where you are.

And the blockade thing, like it has been said, really hurts corps. For example, I have a cryer trader. Part of an unofficial faction too, so he has Cryer| at the start of his name. One of your suggested routes for cryer involves taking contraband across the rheinlandberty embargo. What if I get caught doing that? That whole Cryer| faction is basically screwed. Whereas some zoner can just be like "oho, I am neutral:)just supplying my freeport!:)" and then speeddock on literally any base he feels like and type /renameme.

I'm not trying to like, ask for a free pass to do whatever, but I mean, from a Cryer perspective, a big chunk of the stuff we're supposed to haul is illegal. Not saying that's bad, just saying that it puts me at a disadvantage when compared to some no-name zoner whale. And I thought the zoner trader spam was going to be curbed.


tl;dr: corps! Corporations are supposed to be these huge megapowers with disgusting, diplomacy-changing wealth, planets they have complete control and ownership over, huge fleets of ships blah blah blah, but they're basically nowhere becauase zoners have it all going on. also i get lonely when i pirate in stuttgart.


edit: to clarify, my problems aren't actually with the economy system, which I think is fine (I never traded too seriously in .84 I guess, but I make a lot of money right now on my junker, os&c and cryer characters. Sure the junker's trade freedom does grant it way, way more routes than the other two, and therefore I guess it's more exciting, but the money is more than fine for all three when sticking striictly to RP), but the way it is effected in game, with blockade running being safe, profitable and effortless, and little borderworld-shuffling dromedary-flying zoners being the major economic force in the galaxy, whilst lawful traders all get funnelled in to liberty's tradelanes at the mercy of any and every pirate around, and corporations are few and far between. Pirates just have to spend all day pirating zoners, which is boring and doesn't even make RP sense.

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Join Cryer Pharmaceuticals

[JakeSG]

Besides, if profits go up, then so will pirate demands, and you're back to where you started at. Changing equipment prices has no effect on pirate demands, is much easier to implement, and requires only a fraction of the time to encode and balance.

Single note by me, seeing as everything I've thought has been covered. Pirate demands have actually gotten worse. Not only are they still demanding '2milordai', or greater in some cases, more and more are actually switching to cargo piracy because they can't be arsed trading any more. Cargo pirates are vicious mongrels who really don't give a damn about you, and most of the ones I've met will demand ALL of your cargo, whether you have a 5k hold or a 2k hold, as opposed to the 3.4k hold of the Ptrans.

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For the Core.

[CCI45-px/Probe149]

Single note by me, seeing as everything I've thought has been covered. Pirate demands have actually gotten worse. Not only are they still demanding '2milordai', or greater in some cases, more and more are actually switching to cargo piracy because they can't be arsed trading any more. Cargo pirates are vicious mongrels who really don't give a damn about you, and most of the ones I've met will demand ALL of your cargo, whether you have a 5k hold or a 2k hold, as opposed to the 3.4k hold of the Ptrans.

And i know some who do this. And then make ~6 Mil with the pirated cargo. Which many times isn't pirated, but taken from the loot of the destroyed trader.

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In a brilliant tactical movement, i charged backwards.

[Grimly]

Yeah I don't want to sound too much like a broken record and the same everyone else, but I think this highlights a problem. While the money is fine and all that, not everyone 'can' haul mining machiners and robotic components. Like I said before, my main traders are a junker, a cryer and an OS&C. I guess the junker can haul those. Cryer and robotic components maybe. But my OS&C lux liner?

Grimly's point about the liberty-focus is not at all bad either. Liberty factions are all big enough anyway, and as a pirate out in Rheinland, feels like we're being choked out a bit. There's basically just the one line through Rheinland, and it isn't particularly high-traffic. You can sit on it easily enough, but you wont see that many people, and any lawful knows exactly where you are.

And the blockade thing, like it has been said, really hurts corps. For example, I have a cryer trader. Part of an unofficial faction too, so he has Cryer| at the start of his name. One of your suggested routes for cryer involves taking contraband across the rheinlandberty embargo. What if I get caught doing that? That whole Cryer| faction is basically screwed. Whereas some zoner can just be like "oho, I am neutral:)just supplying my freeport!:)" and then speeddock on literally any base he feels like and type /renameme.

I'm not trying to like, ask for a free pass to do whatever, but I mean, from a Cryer perspective, a big chunk of the stuff we're supposed to haul is illegal. Not saying that's bad, just saying that it puts me at a disadvantage when compared to some no-name zoner whale. And I thought the zoner trader spam was going to be curbed.
tl;dr: corps! Corporations are supposed to be these huge megapowers with disgusting, diplomacy-changing wealth, planets they have complete control and ownership over, huge fleets of ships blah blah blah, but they're basically nowhere becauase zoners have it all going on. also i get lonely when i pirate in stuttgart.
edit: to clarify, my problems aren't actually with the economy system, which I think is fine (I never traded too seriously in .84 I guess, but I make a lot of money right now on my junker, os&c and cryer characters. Sure the junker's trade freedom does grant it way, way more routes than the other two, and therefore I guess it's more exciting, but the money is more than fine for all three when sticking striictly to RP), but the way it is effected in game, with blockade running being safe, profitable and effortless, and little borderworld-shuffling dromedary-flying zoners being the major economic force in the galaxy, whilst lawful traders all get funnelled in to liberty's tradelanes at the mercy of any and every pirate around, and corporations are few and far between. Pirates just have to spend all day pirating zoners, which is boring and doesn't even make RP sense.

This point on trade ship limitation is what it makes the zoners traders get used in mass. A pirate can't no-more let them pass cause it's their only source of profits

Also ... I didn't tryed to see the other locations but in fact there is no real liberty focus, but just an abandon of the Rheinland while it still have commercial interrests with Kusary and Bretonia.

Looking at all pirate factions, I realize that 6 of them are depending of the Rheinland economy, Corsairs, Red hessians, Blood dragons, LWB, Bundshuh and Unioners. Also most of them were rushed in 4.84 version due to the diamond/niobium high profits.

And i know some who do this. And then make ~6 Mil with the pirated cargo. Which many times isn't pirated, but taken from the loot of the destroyed trader.

Try it on a Deuterium convoy heading to Ames (zoner immunity ... I say "lol wut ?"), Cardamine heading to Rochester (yes, you can demand the cargo ... you're addicted, aren't you ?), Artifacts (Isn't the problem the funds the corsairs get and not that shiny stones), Niobium to manhattan (junkers are always good customers in the black market) ... that makes about 10M each time.



Liberty missed the crisis ... it should come soon isn't it ?

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Taking what's yours since 816 A.S.

[Eppy]

Cargo pirates are vicious monsters and they should all be banned. It is no longer '2 mil r dai,' it is now '3 mil r dai,' and, in some incidents with people who I intend to bribe Saint Peter into diverting at the Pearly Gates, '5 mil r dai n gimme all ur cargo for my ptrans r else, lulz.' I'm not exactly making money here, I'm not getting a heck of a lot of RP out of it, and it's making me even more foul and unimaginably angry than the politicking, self-serving egotistical morons who have replaced most of the good people on this server, because it's preventing me from retiring to my nice Dreadnought in orbit around Carinea where I can have nice, soothing RP made up of intelligence communiques without anything to politick or fight anybody about except Corsairs, IMG, and Cryer. If pirates should be able to get away with that kind of griefing than the traders should be able to come back and blow them out of the sky in a ship ten times their size.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.