Corsair Order alliance

[Zeltak]

Well just accept it. The Alliance is there and it will not be removed in the near future if nothing really really important happens. End of story. Good night.

Sounds to me that you are just a little bit scared to loose your only ally against the Bounty Hunters.

Regardless, the Corsairs gain nothing for being in the Omicron Kappa, Delta, Minor (any system were the Order is present).

The alliance was formed from an ancient agreement that was made eons ago.

Edit: Sure you can justify it by having a common enemy but it still dosen't make sense to have an official alliance. Hell, if the "common enemy" argument could justify official alliances then you could just as well say Outcast are allied to Corsairs, they both hate the Bounty Hunters!

[globalplayer-svk]

funny on this and similar threads is, that they are not based on rp, but on something with line: we now have our own ship line, so we dont need them....

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[Zeltak]

funny on this and similar threads is, that they are not based on rp, but on something with line: we now have our own ship line, so we dont need them....

Erm, reversed.

All arguments for the Order to NOT be allied to the Corsairs are Role-Play arguments.

And all arguments for the Order to STILL be allied to the Corsairs are not Role-Play arguments but more along the lines of "well they were allied in the vanilla lol you can't just change that."

If the Order can get their own ship-line in this mod they can also break off an ancient alliance based on trading pilot-training for resources.

Also, having your own ship-line is a product of Role-Play, why would you even try to argue against that?

Just admit that you are afraid to loose the only ally you got near your home-system due to various Outcast and Red Hessian threats, it is your only reason to lobby for it. But you could just as well say the same to me since I play mostly on characters that are enemy to the Corsairs. The only difference is that my arguments are more valid than yours.

[Canaris]

You guys arent getting the big picture.

The Order is not 'heroic' in the sense that its lawful. Its also using unlawful methods. For example it blew up the Donau in the SP campain, also killing hundreds of innocent people that had nothing to do with it, and probably did other similar actions, as hinted in some SP news reports.

If all humanity were just a bunch of pirates, they would be fighting for those pirates. They wouldnt say 'nomads are better than us because we kill each other, so let them kill us'.

Order will take what ever help it will get. It wont say 'you are a filthy pirate, I dont want your help in saving humanity'. It doesnt care about upholding any law... unlawfuls are humans to them just like anybody... a part of human nature.

For an alliance especially with the corsairs, there are several good reasons:

-Corsaires fight the outcasts. The outcasts are in league with the noamds.
-The artifact smuggle is controled by the corsaires. Alien artifacts are vital in understanding the Daam K'vosh (or how you spell it) and in beating the nomads. Like in SP.
-Probably nomads are against artifact smuggle in general and thus also in confrontation to the Corsaires, they certainly got screwed of by an artifact in the SP.

[Zeltak]

The Order is committed to fight the Bounty Hunters and the Nomads primarily in Omicron Kappa, Delta and Minor. Now tell me what does the Corsairs gain for helping the Order in those areas? Nothing but loosing resources and pilots.

If the Order would send pilots to Omicron Gamma to fight off Outcast invasions that would be another story. But in Role-Play they don't have the time, interest or enough resources to do that. Also, the comment about Outcast being "in league with the Nomads" is just plain wrong. They see them as spirits and respect them, but sure as hell they are not allying themselves with them, and even so, not enough for the Order to find a reason to go full-scale war with the Outcasts.

Other than that, the only real argument you can go by is the "Bounty Hunters are a common enemy". Yes they are, but as I said, that is not sufficient enough to form an official alliance.

Also all your arguments are built-up from "single-player", that is exactly my point. The only arguments for this alliance is based off the vanilla Freelancer (time/era), well sorry to say things have changed since then.

[dead_shot]

We have too many common enemies: Nomads, Outcasts, BHG, Houses...


And there were a lot of cases when Order sent pilots to help Gamma against OCs... I participated in some and I've been in Order for just a few weeks

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the path to hell is paved with good intentions!

[globalplayer-svk]

Just admit that you are afraid to loose the only ally you got near your home-system due to various Outcast and Red Hessian threats, it is your only reason to lobby for it. But you could just as well say the same to me since I play mostly on characters that are enemy to the Corsairs. The only difference is that my arguments are more valid than yours.

sorry, i dont remember when order helped us against red hessians, and maybe 1-2 times when they helped us against outcasts( you know how helpfull was order carrier against group of falcatas?)

and on the other side, outcasts friendship to nomads is no longer so big secret as it was, are you sure that order will not stay in alliance with their mortal enemy?

edit: and as is above typed, when alliance end, order loose every acces that they have to corsair artifact trade. no more control, no more watching, nothing. will they risk it?
ooc: i dont have any problem with breaking or destroying alliance, but are you sure that is good to let order without ally that can help them? because gmg or zoners will not attack bh attacking minor...

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[Zeltak]

sorry, i dont remember when order helped us against red hessians, and maybe 1-2 times when they helped us against outcasts( you know how helpfull was order carrier against group of falcatas?)

and on the other side, outcasts friendship to nomads is no longer so big secret as it was, are you sure that order will not stay in alliance with their mortal enemy?

ooc: i dont have any problem with breaking or destroying alliance, but are you sure that is good to let order without ally that can help them? because gmg or zoners will not attack bh attacking minor...

Even if the Outcast 'secret' is revealed, they are not openly allying themselves with the Nomads, its not like they are sharing resources or fighting together (this is only an exception when both have a common enemy much like the Corsairs and Order fighting Bounty Hunters.)

But at the same time I agree the Corsair do need a strong alliance with someone that benefit their own interests more concrete. They have just too many enemies as it is right now and the Outcast have too many allies.

[Canaris]

The Order is committed to fight the Bounty Hunters and the Nomads primarily in Omicron Kappa, Delta and Minor. Now tell me what does the Corsairs gain for helping the Order in those areas? Nothing but loosing resources and pilots.

The corsairs gain:
1: The survival of teir species in a war with an alien race
2: Less bounty hunters on their asses. Bounty hunters hunt Corsaires too

Waste of resources? They would probably lose more doing the above 2 things on their own.

If the Order would send pilots to Omicron Gamma to fight off Outcast invasions that would be another story. But in Role-Play they don't have the time, interest or enough resources to do that. Also, the comment about Outcast being "in league with the Nomads" is just plain wrong. They see them as spirits and respect them, but sure as hell they are not allying themselves with them, and even so, not enough for the Order to find a reason to go full-scale war with the Outcasts.

Order isnt in full scale war with Outcasts. Dont think anybody asks for that. But you wont see an alliance with Outcasts because of their views with the nomads. I think outcasts are allowed to ally themselves with nomads in pvp fights.

Other than that, the only real argument you can go by is the "Bounty Hunters are a common enemy". Yes they are, but as I said, that is not sufficient enough to form an official alliance.

Also all your arguments are built-up from "single-player", that is exactly my point. The only arguments for this alliance is based off the vanilla Freelancer (time/era), well sorry to say things have changed since then.

Disco is based on vanilla. Its not a BSG or Startrek mod, its based in the Freelancer universe, very closely.

I still think all my arguments are valid. If you find them invalid please show me where Im wrong.


What would either side gain when beraking the allaince?
NOthing,...

Thats why its in place and makes sense.

If you say one argument is rp and one is oorp... I dont actually agree. If you say he is lobbying for it out of own reasons, I would suggest you are probable doing the same.

And their is an oorp argument that should count:
Server ballance. Corsaires dont have as many allies as Outcasts, and fewer people play as corsairs. The Corsaires would totally get their asses kicked all the time if they werent allied to Order. There would be no fun in that.

[Zig]

why? you think order will have so strong nation as corsairs, right in front of their doors as enemies?...

Aha. Ahahahaha. Please excuse me while I go outside and clutch my aching sides.

The Corsairs have the numbers and approximate amount of individual skill of Imperial Guardsmen without any of their coordination, cynicism, or Warhammer 40K appeal.

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Luls:

Role-play is not the be all and end all.