Order and Corsair

[Heartless]

an alliance is too moochy and they do have their differences. So I say friendly, which is pretty much the same.

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SwissScorch --> Heartless

[Tommeh]

You got in some points wright Blodo,but we do not have such forces to be strecthed all over Sirius,we have pretty enough active players but not for such operations,we will try to develop them in future.You saying that we shouldn't concentrate on war with BHG and alliance with Corsair,I said this many times,we do not attack BHG or go in raids against them.They come to Minor and we must defend there.And you forgot about BHG| Core.
They want to abuse nomad tehnologcy for themself,that's why we are fighting them.
I voted for alliance,we do not have any other strong battleing faction except Corsairs,Zoners are there,but they are helping us with finances and supplies,we can not count on their juggies and GB that will helps us in war,except when defending freeports from Keepers.
I remember that we called Corsairs few times for help,and they answered everytime,most of time it was Benitez members coming with bombers.
And I think we should also answer when it comes to defending Crete.
Yes our main mission are Keepers,but you never know when they are active,what are they planning to do,and they are very deadly.
But it would be good if we could get those allies which Tenacity mentioned,we could have keep eye on Wildes and keeper activity out of Omicrons which would be fun,

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[Death.RunningVerminator]

Im sorry, it just...doesn't make much sense to me. I suppose because the outcast are friendly with nomads, (order's enemies) and are hostile with corsairs, it makes sense....It just doesn't seem right at the moment.

Let the community vote, and perhaps there may be discussion later.

[Eternal]

Since I have already bothered answering this question in countless other threats like this one , that pop-up from time to time , I'll try to be short and accurate as possible in this one , but I'll try a different approach.

The Corsair Empire and The Order are both faction that have strong player factions , all of which are old and productive in their RP. Both NPC factions , in RP , benefit from this alliance and since there are players in commanding positions in both player faction I suggest you allow them , us , to deal with something like this. If we thought that this alliance was unneeded , unnecessary and makes no sence in RP , we would have acted long before threads like this started to imerge.

Since we haven't done that , people who have little to know idea why both faction are allies in the first place and are not part of their commanding structure should , at the very least , stop bashing in every tread they see and understand that there is a reason we are still allies. Please , allow the people who have been chosen to lead their factions , or assist in leading them , do their job.

I don't wish to target anyone in particular , but this threat was , as far as I remember , originally born out of the unhappiness of some individuals who started to question the alliance as nothing more then a PvP excuse to shoot at Bounty Hunters and ally against them. Which is , put simply , non-sence at best.

Many of you may not know , but this alliance is also RP'ed within the commanding structure of the Order. One of the admirals is a direct ascendant of a Corsair family with power , in RP , within the Corsair Empire.

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[Canaris]

I hate when Order bothering us in Alpha and supporting Corsair in military power. Same goes in Iota when Corsairs attacking us in Iota, along with Order. Im talking about indies of course, though i swear i saw one Benitez once in Iota with Order indies (BSs -.-')

When Order bother you in alpha, its probably because of the Keepers that hang out there frequently. I understand you hate it when people shoot you when you dont want them to. I also hate it when traders shoot at me when I try to pirate them. And I hate when pirates shoot at my trader and always shoot them if I have a chance.

My idea of the Order is that they shouldn't be picking fights among humans (which will inevitably happen when they openly take sides in the Corsair-Outcast conflict), but rather securing at least some degree of support all across Sirius. This involves inserting agents and having varied diplomatic relations with all manner of factions, especially the ones that have a lot of past experience with fighting Nomads or Nomad infested agents, as the Order should by all means be primarily preoccupied by the Nomads and not by the BHG or Corsair alliance or Outcasts. For example I find it senseless that the Order has little to no contact with factions like Blood Dragons and Bundschuh, who were their old allies and both are close to Rheinland and Kusari Wilde respectively. Then, why aren't they securing agents in Liberty and Bretonia, both of which seem strangely "free" of Nomad infestation (the truth might be different but it needs to be uncovered first)? Why aren't they sending armed recon parties into different parts of Sirius with large Nomad activity, like the Omega systems for example? Why do they inherit Corsair diplomacy, when most of the factions that shoot the Corsairs find no reason to be shooting Order unless shot at first? All of these concerns just seem to be constantly ignored...

Probelm there is balance.

When people start on the server, a large majority either wants to be in the Outcats (because they had the best ship Sabre in vanilla) or the Order (cause they want to be heros). Few want to be nomads, and the number of nomads is being kept low on purpose... for various reasons. Relatively few want to be Corsaires because they are realtively unattractive in vanilla.

For the Order, that has the consequence that they are "larger" than they should following vanilla logic, and have too few enemies they can actually shoot following vanilly logic.

For the Corsaires, they are too few to be able stand in a war against the Outcasts and all their allies alone. They would get pwned on a regular basis, making even fewer of them want to play as Corsairs.

For Outcasts... they are just too powerful in player numbers, and that also includes people lobbying for them on the forums (see all the 'we hate *insert random name of OC enemy*' threads).

I think an Order Corsair alliance is good, it helps the Corsairs who have too many enemies, gives Order people something to actually do, and it DOES make a lot of sense in RP. I think the people saying Order are pure heroes and therefore shouldnt ally with pirates... thats not the Order is the SP campain. They used alliances with all sorts of pirates when ever it got them what they wanted.

I wouldnt mind going neutral to corsairs if we could gain additional allies within each house.

Example:
-Bundschuh (rheinland)
-Blood Dragons (kusari - drop the hogosha, we dont need them)
-Either the Hackers or Xenos within Liberty (some past RP has been done with xenos to help with that change)
-Mollies or, preferrably, the Gaians in bretonia

Thing is... Order cant really ally with people who are addicted to cardamine or who are allied with Outcasts.
In a player ballance sense, Order dont need any allies. In a rp sense, I think they do need the Hogosha.

Since I have already bothered answering this question in countless other threats like this one , that pop-up from time to time , I'll try to be short and accurate as possible in this one , but I'll try a different approach.

The Corsair Empire and The Order are both faction that have strong player factions , all of which are old and productive in their RP. Both NPC factions , in RP , benefit from this alliance and since there are players in commanding positions in both player faction I suggest you allow them , us , to deal with something like this. If we thought that this alliance was unneeded , unnecessary and makes no sence in RP , we would have acted long before threads like this started to imerge.

Since we haven't done that , people who have little to know idea why both faction are allies in the first place and are not part of their commanding structure should , at the very least , stop bashing in every tread they see and understand that there is a reason we are still allies. Please , allow the people who have been chosen to lead their factions , or assist in leading them , do their job.

I don't wish to target anyone in particular , but this threat was , as far as I remember , originally born out of the unhappiness of some individuals who started to question the alliance as nothing more then a PvP excuse to shoot at Bounty Hunters and ally against them. Which is , put simply , non-sence at best.

Many of you may not know , but this alliance is also RP'ed within the commanding structure of the Order. One of the admirals is a direct ascendant of a Corsair family with power , in RP , within the Corsair Empire.

/signed

[Klaw117]

Okay, this is a mod design question. The Corsair/Order alliance was not set up just to assign Osiris to corsairs. It looks cool in patrols, yes, better than most custom ships would look. However, it's still not a reason.

Diplomacy in nomad worlds is tough business. Several factions are represented: The Order, who guard against nomads and exploit local resources; Corsairs, who exploit resources and attack lawfuls like Bounty Hunters and Liberty military; Zoners, who just trade (and, again, try to explore and get whatever goods of value they can get). On the other side, there's Liberty Navy and Bounty Hunters, who expand into the Nomad systems from Alaska. Interests of Liberty remain uncertain, other than studying Nomads in order to prevent further intrusions. Bounty Hunters are obviously financed by Liberty government to protect their operations.

And there are nomads, who are hostile to everyone.

What happened to The Order after the war? I'll cover that part in the new mod version if I'll have time, since the info seems to be necessary. First of all, it's obvious that Liberty government tried to conceal the role that Order played in the war. The events that happened to Trent never came to be fully known to general public, even though Jacobi knew (and awarded Trent with the Lone Star). For Liberty public, The Order was still a dangerous terrorist organization that somehow helped against nomads, but didn't became less dangerous after that (possibly it became more dangerous and gained more power).

Jacobi could not be a president for life, of course. Her successor was much less tolerable with The Order issues, and demanded a full investigation. LSF and Navy used this order to eliminate all Order agents in Liberty, and tighten Alaska patrols to prevent all possible intrusions of The Order. This meant that most supply lines for The Order were cut off, and the faction turned towards Corsairs because food was lacking, metals were lacking, and pilots were lacking. Corsairs, who already established an outpost in the nearby Delta, seemed to be the only hope. Of course, not everyone in The Order was sure about this decision, including Orilion himself; but his role as a spiritual leader declined, and many of his old followers were already dead, killed in fights with Nomads. The new Order leaders did not hezitate to ally with criminals for survival and money. Liberty considered them criminals anyway, and they had no access to the systems of other Houses.

Outcasts... well, they fought for The Order not quite because they were allies, but because Nomads were a common threat. All factions played a certain role in fighting Nomads back. As far as I can remember, there was only one Outcast ship in the Order fleet that fought against Nomads in the final missions.

The Rheinland issue. Well, cleansing Rheinland from Nomad-infested people did not happen because The Order destroyed several battleships, and Bundschuh were far too weak to do this themselves. Again, a question for the storyline to answer. Someday.

What's wrong about the rumor?

I don't think that it's wrong for Outcasts to have The Order on their enemy list. They never fight each other, right? So there's no open confrontation. No systems where both factions are present. As for the enemy... well, since Corsairs help The Order, Order became a part of Corsair coalition. That's quite simple, and I don't see any problems about that.

Why Order is not allied with Blood Dragons, or Bundschuh? Probably some ties between them remain. But both factions are just too far away to influence the situation.

Meanwhile, you might be right about enemy list. Maybe it's worth to remove them from one another's enemies... they don't fight each other, right?:)

This should tell you why Order should be allied with the Corsairs and more.

I am getting sick of all these "Screw the Order-Corsair Alliance" topics. This has been established as in-game canon, meaning it will not go away for quite some time.

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Carlos Rivera: Corsair Brotherhood Pirate - Retired, shifted to Tripoli Shipyard's Research and Development engineering teams
Anthony Cameron: Guild Core Bounty Hunter - Killed in Action, committed suicide after being trapped in Omicron Minor following its destruction
Juan Ruiz: Outcast Ghost of Razgriz Pirate - Killed in Action, killed by the Sirius Coalition Revolutionary Army during Bretonian piracy raid
Michael Winchester: Liberty Security Force Agent - Missing in Action, likely killed during Rheinland espionage mission or trapped in Rheinland Space
Eric McCormick: Order Pilot - Retired, shifted to planetside training of new recruits

Liberty and Nomad Backstory, Very interesting - read it!

[darthbeck]

Klaw, you managed to say what i was going to say.

but yeah, its more or less cannon now.

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<span style="font-family:Century Gothic">Violence is Golden</span>

[alexcomboy]

I hate when Order bothering us in Alpha and supporting Corsair in military power.

Do you count my Order bomber "Innocent":lol:in that? I took it to alpha a few nights back to watch the Corsair invasion of Alpha. . .

[globalplayer-svk]

kill them all!!!!

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[Death.RunningVerminator]

Since I have already bothered answering this question in countless other threats like this one , that pop-up from time to time , I'll try to be short and accurate as possible in this one , but I'll try a different approach.

The Corsair Empire and The Order are both faction that have strong player factions , all of which are old and productive in their RP. Both NPC factions , in RP , benefit from this alliance and since there are players in commanding positions in both player faction I suggest you allow them , us , to deal with something like this. If we thought that this alliance was unneeded , unnecessary and makes no sence in RP , we would have acted long before threads like this started to imerge.

Since we haven't done that , people who have little to know idea why both faction are allies in the first place and are not part of their commanding structure should , at the very least , stop bashing in every tread they see and understand that there is a reason we are still allies. Please , allow the people who have been chosen to lead their factions , or assist in leading them , do their job.

I don't wish to target anyone in particular , but this threat was , as far as I remember , originally born out of the unhappiness of some individuals who started to question the alliance as nothing more then a PvP excuse to shoot at Bounty Hunters and ally against them. Which is , put simply , non-sence at best.

Many of you may not know , but this alliance is also RP'ed within the commanding structure of the Order. One of the admirals is a direct ascendant of a Corsair family with power , in RP , within the Corsair Empire.

I am not starting this poll because of anyone's, quote, "Unhappiness of some individuals who started to question the alliance as nothing more then a PvP excuse to shoot at Bounty Hunters and ally against them." But after what you just said about there being an ascendant form a corsair family, i suppose it makes a bit more sense. But that also up another question, a corsair descendant in the order?? WTF?

Another thing, so if there was an Outcast ascendant from a long line of wealthy family, that decided to join the =CR= the CR and outcast would have a better chance of an alliance? (and i just used CR as an example)