Admin Note: Faction right #5

[Jinx]

edit: reply removed, - not really important to argue about something thats been decided

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Muleo]

What about varying levels of hostility between official factions sharing an NPC faction?

Say if VR had an arch nemesis, that the Lane Hackers liked. What happens then?

Same with SOB/101st/RoS with the Outcasts, HF/LH, TBH/Benitez/OPG, IMG/CR, that sort of thing

IMG/CR isn't a problem, the IMG have the IMG iff, CR has the Colonial iff.
The Outcasts and Corsairs have a council, which represents the government, I would think any factions not within this council, RoS/TBH for example, have no say in the matter.

For the Corsairs I ask the admins to reserve faction right #5 to the Corsair Council. We'll come up with a decision and then a representative will post in the special request subforum. Since the Council is made up of 2 factions and 1 independent, this might mean this isn't a 'faction right' per se, but a government right.

The Brotherhood should be able to request people be made hostile to the Corsair Guard IFF, but not for the Corsair IFF.

[Tommeh]

I will just say ALELUJA on this rule. :D

And Jinx interesting how did you mention Order as example, but I guess it's fair, as there is bunch of indie unofficial "factions". They are actually just few ships with same tag.
There is few better know such factions, like [TOP] ,Iron Legion (IL) ,red scar {RS-#} etc. They are all good RP ers and they are following Order RP.

Other factions which didn't followed Order RP, causing trouble, and just looking excuse for PvP didn't managed to stay whole long enough, to be treaten with this rule as there was no true RPer among them to hold it together.

But say one thing, Groups like Apocylpse, Order Rebellion [OR], they defected from their factions, doing against them and attacking them. Shouldn't they be set to hostile then as in RP they are rebellion, and they wouldn't be allowed to freely fly in systems from which they rebeled and dock on their bases.

I think this rule is perfect for such situations as people won't be able to expliot that they are still friendlly to faction from which they rebeled. And it will make them think about it much more before doing it, as they will need to figure where they will be resupplying and etc.

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[DarthCloakedGuy]

IMG/CR isn't a problem, the IMG have the IMG iff, CR has the Colonial iff.

Well, right now, the CR is trying to stop IMG from using any IMG vessel that's only sold on a Colonial base (such as the IMG VHF, the Nyx)...

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HISPANIANS, FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF HER PEOPLE
A Plea to the Outcasts (PG)
CHARACTERS:
LR-I.Got.Nothin', LR-Empty.Pockets, and LR-Dead.End = "Lash" McDaggit of the Liberty Rogues.
SMUG~Eat.My.Exhaust = Jane Terraman and Bob McAdams, smugglers of the Liberty Rogues.
[H]Cj.Martino.Perez = Martino Perez, self-declared Counselor of the Hispanians.
AVATAR MADE BY SPIRIT! THE AWESOME.

[Jinx]

i don t really want the order to stand out there - but its just .... the order is a faction quite close to my chars, so i simply know or think i know more about whats going on there than i know whats going on in gallia for example.

and so - i am sorry for yet another example - involving the order:

- a longer time ago - the order faction, - the BS back then - established diplomatic talk with the LN and the LSF, i think. - this went so far - that the LN and LSF were not considered "enemies" anymore by the BS. - that was a long process involving veteran RPers with a good and deep understanding of roleplay.

and it was just fine as it was.....


- but. - at that time, there were non factionized members of the order that wouldn t want to roleplay these diplomatic talks and results with the liberty lawfuls, - and kept going to new york and "stir up trouble". - resulting - and thats needless to say - in a blow for the diplomatic talks, cause you can either simply ignore the raids - or you include t hem into your roleplay.



the admin intervention was as follows:

no faction is allowed to dictate a path that leads away too much from the canon path. - whats problematic is .... the canon is hardly ever set in stone - but ... if ever .... only interpreted.



lets apply this rule now.


the order| initiates diplomatic talks with the navy - you have veterans dedicating their spare time into discussions, negotiations - and ... in short.... all the stuff needed for roleplay progression, change and developement.

yet - the ID card states "enemies: liberty navy, LSF" ( actually i don t know if it still states them as enemies, but it used to )

a clan disregards those talks and keeps shooting the LN, sometimes while they are in minor on a diplomatic mission, or sometimes even in new york.

disruptive for the factions roleplay? certainly. - against canon? ..... questionable....


is that a reason to declare that - what this clan does is against the factions wellfare and roleplay? - does it... after sufficient pleading and talks - to set this clan "hostile" cause.... no doubt, they DO sabotage the factions effords to talk to the lib lawfuls.

or does it leave the order canon too much?




solving the "easy" cases is no problem. - the occasional lol-wut that doesn t want to RP can be set to hostile, and no one will complain. - it will be those borderline RP cases that will cause problems.



edit:

let me make that clear...

personally - i TRUST the factions to be responsible. - i do... - i think trust is important to start and change things. - people just have to be aware that this system can cause problems. and the more they prepare for possible problems, the better.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Muleo]

Jinx I think you're forgetting that these requests have to go through the admins, who aren't (most of the time) complete idiots. Any ridiculous cases of factions trying to set indy groups hostile for not following their every beck and call isn't going to go through.

[ophidian]

Diplomatic game dynamics of factions and groups are not being implemented to the core game, we usually have our IDs and its stated enemies and friends.

I would prefer to have dynamic ID changes with diplomatic agreements of players deciding on events rather than a dev team / admin team / Igiss picking which faction to love which. This kills the dynamics of being in political dialogues. After all, it all turns out to be "not important what you do" kinda thing, which makes it look like a single player campaign with intelligent NPCs wandering around.


Regarding the rule;

I am not against it, I am not supporting it. I have to see how it goes. I guess, design wise, something that makes the people follow diplomatic and such channels would be way better but I sincerely don't have a solution for that at this moment.

As Tommy suggested, changing the affilliation and hostility works perfectly in RP situations like rebellions etc. Afterall, if you rebel, then you are a target. Though depending on the depth of RP involved, that hostility thing can vary like "What if LSF made the Order wing go rebel"? That requires an IFF change in favor of LSF as well at least to neutrality. Then this goes out of the borders of this rule. And if the Order player still shows hostile to the LSF as well as to the Order, how will they dock or repair or... you know, live?

Game dynamics are somewhat limited to the possibilities the game universe presents. Like the ID stating hostile / friendly while in reality things are different and so.

Even though I support any and all ideas that evolve and elevate the RP quality of the server, I also hope that the brainstorming leans towards how to increase the adaptabilitiy of player interractions to the game universe rather than player sanctions being adaptable to game universe.

The rule 5 is somewhere in the middle of this two it seems.

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[TheMillers]

I want...

Australia!

Of all the places you could demand, you want Australia ??!? :O

/droprespect Dieter Schprokets

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Out of bats, Out of bots, Out of torps - Down to harsh language...

[n00bl3t]

There is few better know such factions, like [TOP] ,Iron Legion (IL) ,red scar {RS-#} etc. They are all good RP ers and they are following Order RP.

Other factions which didn't followed Order RP, causing trouble, and just looking excuse for PvP didn't managed to stay whole long enough, to be treaten with this rule as there was no true RPer among them to hold it together.

There is a slight difference between what is Order RP and what is good RP.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Tommeh]

There is a slight difference between what is Order RP and what is good RP.

Indeed it is, but why to make Order char and then RP with it completely different then Order RP is(rebellions, raiding Alpha, sitting in Alaska all day and provoking Libertorians etc ).
And there is very, very small percent of people in Minor, who are good RPers but not following Order RP.
Big part of them doesn't even know who are our enemies and who are allies as they only made Order char because someone said to them it's cool, or there are cool ships etc.

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