Discovery Mod: Balance Issues

[mjolnir]

I can tell the same about Valor:D Front profile of med bs but it packs heavy punch of rest stuff.

Okay.. you want to "balance" it that way... then why we need 4 if only 3 can fire? make 3 and give 1 more slot for something else... or is it only for "number" "look it have 4 turrets.. just like others... it balanced good"

Valor has terrible heavy turret arcs backwards.

The primary arcs on Kusari bs are given a lot by the model, i.e. the 2 turrets next to the hangar have limited arcs so that they don't fire trough the whole ship.

Oh and while we on topic.... KuBC exchanged 2 heavy slots for speed... I'm ok with it, but why BHGBC have 4 and 140speed too?

BHG BCs battleship turrets don't fire backwards.

BAF Destroyer is a pretty good ship overall but it has fewest number of turrets in its class, only 2 of the heavy turrets can point backwards, ...

On all heavy cruisers only 2 of the heavy turrets can fire backwards. BAF destroyer has heavy cruiser armor and powerplant combined with light cruiser (BHG Destroyer) turning and a shape that makes it hard to hit.

LABC is OP. Look at the number of people buying them--if everybody uses something then it's OP....

The fact that many people buy it has much more to do with it being a liberty ship and the only "normal" cruiser class ship liberty has.


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We'll check the IMG fighters, however I can't agree with "Armor, bats/bots and power core are (sadly) largely irrelevant for balancing".

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[West]

Valor has terrible heavy turret arcs backwards.

Backwards heavy arcs don't change anything... because in BS vs Cr fight.. you relly mostly on support... and in BS vs BS battle it's nearly immpossible to "hide" in his backward blind spot.. because he will annihilate your bs before you would be able to reach it.

The primary arcs on Kusari bs are given a lot by the model, i.e. the 2 turrets next to the hangar have limited arcs so that they don't fire trough the whole ship.

Then why not exchange 2 light slots from both sides(where they have 4 packed almost in one place) giving prmis normal usage, and in exchange reducing it's "light" firepower by one turret.

3 prims is not good at all, because they are main fire power of BS vs Cruisers (cerbs so easy to dodge) and they are almost 40% of damage in BS vs BS battle. No need to waste slot, make some use of it.

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[Ursus]

On all heavy cruisers only 2 of the heavy turrets can fire backwards.

Eh that's wrong. Not really the point of my complaint either but since you mention it... All 3 of the heavy slots on the Rheinland Cruiser fire backwards. Positions 10 and 11 don't have full 360 but they can fire up and to the back, or down and to the back (enemy has to be right in the engine exhaust not to get hit). On the other hand, position #8 on the Bretonia Destroyer is limited to about 10-degree sweep from dead center, it can't even fire to the sides never mind the back. So your comparison and statement is wrong since the weapon sweeps are wildly different.

Besides I'm not even asking you to fix the heavy #8, just change light turret positions 6 and 7 to 360 rotation to be like positions 3 and 4 next to them already are. That will make so it can fire more than 2 weapons to the rear. That is all it needs to be on par with the other ships.

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Discovery 24/7 Negotiating Tactics:

[Govedo13]

OP ships that need nerf in 4.86:
SCRA VHF- it needs to be bigger and to be slower. Make it VHF please.

IMG Bomber- remove one of the Slots/change to medium bomber core or make it to handle like barghest/chalanger- your choice.

Gallic SHF- it is faster then all other SHFs that could fire bomber torpedo. It cruises with freighter/LF speed- need agility nerf together with cruise speed fix.
Falcata- useless ship. Give it medium bomber core or give it more speed.

Sammaels- need a DPS nerf.

Reaper of Sirius Guns- mega efficient- with nice DPS, with nice speed- OP guns without drawbacks- Kraken MK2 with other name.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Sirius Resistance]

Unlawful bases need beefed up defenses.

Example 1: Buffalo Base should have defenses to be able to repel battle cruisers and battleships (that really shouldn't be able to maneuver in the badlands to begin with). There should be more patrols near Buffalo Base, to include gunboats. The badlands should be a place that Liberty lawfuls don't want to enter due to the dangers inside. In vanilla FL, no lawful would want to enter the badlands since it was known as a haven for Rogues and Outcast. Liberty Navy, etc have the full reign of NY, but the badlands are different. Large ships aren't supposed to be able to navigate there and fighters/bombers would be attacked on sight by Rogue ships. Rogue fighters/bombers in the badlands should be equipped with class 9 guns, not the class 2 or 3 that they are now.

Example 2: Humboldt is a Rogue system. There's mining going on there south of the main sun. No problem with that, but the Rogue base should be beefed up to keep people from getting too close. If anything, Humboldt is more of a logical spot for a Rogue Guard system than Cassini. There should be Scylla patrols in Humboldt near the base along with other fighter/bomber patrols with class 9's.

I could make mention of others, but for balance sake, lawfuls should not be able to get close to unlawful bases without suffering significant opposition. And some areas, battleships and such should not be able to maneuver without great peril.

[mjolnir]

SCRA VHF- it needs to be bigger and to be slower. Make it VHF please.

It turns slow, but it's not very big. From testing it didn't seem overpowered. Let's see what more people think.

IMG Bomber- remove one of the Slots/change to medium bomber core or make it to handle like barghest/chalanger- your choice.

It handles like barghest and much slower than challenger.

Gallic SHF- it is faster then all other SHFs that could fire bomber torpedo. It cruises with freighter/LF speed- need agility nerf together with cruise speed fix.

It had wrong engines by mistake, corrected for next update.

Falcata- useless ship. Give it medium bomber core or give it more speed.

It's exactly same as in 4.85, what's useless with it?

Sammaels- need a DPS nerf.

Because of looking by numbers or because of actual perfromance of Werewolf and Greyhounds equipped with them?

Reaper of Sirius Guns- mega efficient- with nice DPS, with nice speed- OP guns without drawbacks- Kraken MK2 with other name.

They are exactly the same as Krakens, for a reason. If you trouble with the stats then talk about krakens.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Govedo13]

It turns slow, but it's not very big. From testing it didn't seem overpowered. Let's see what more people think.

I bet most of the people think it is overpowered- it can dodge a way too good.Turning is not so important as dodging and size acceleration and response. It matters as long as you are not outturned badly- this is not the case in the same classes- VHF vs VHF fights, it might be in VHF vs HF but almost nobody flys HF exactly because turning is not so important.
Sabre in 4.85 turned a way too slow compared with Eagle but it was still supreme-smaller profile with holes, huge fire power, excellent dodging abilities. Dev Team argued a lot that 4.85 Sabre was not OP.
Same with Wraith.
We had this discussion million times- if you took for example templar(good dodging slolwy turning with a lot of fire power and armour, small profile) and compare it with greyhound(bad dodging fast turning medium armour,large profile and bad fire power) and eagle( good dodging good turning low armour and medicore power, large profile) we would see that Eagle is better then the other 2 ships, Templar is better then Greyhound( side profile of a barn).
Turning is not the major balancing factor because less then 100 people on discovery main server can use it as advantage- all people can use dodging as advantage- so people who get ships with better turning instead of better dodging tend to be on the bad side of the balance.
I do agree that if we give 2 very good pilots greyhound and templar- the greyhound would win, but if we give the rest of the server 95% the same ships the templar will win.
Same with Eagle and Templar.
For more precise balance sewing lets take Wraith and Greyhound for example-
Grey have less guns then Wraith-4,5 less armour, less bots,less firepower less core less dodging capabilites.
According to the Dev Team Wraith is have supreme armour/bots/core/agility/turning because it looses one gun, Grey looses 1,5 guns but is worst in every direction possible. So yes Wraith is not OP.:lol:

It handles like barghest and much slower than challenger.

Will test it more then but still I find that have medium bomber handling.
IMG ship according to the Stats have a better response then Barghest, and I am also almost sure that it has harder to hit model.

Because of looking by numbers or because of actual performance of Werewolf and Greyhounds equipped with them?

What about if I use them on Eagle or Ravens Talon? I still get no nerf and they are still OP. I tested both on Wolf and Grey- I would go with Codes on Grey- it just does not have enough shield breaking power with Sammaels. They work good on Wolf.
If you could manage to make the auto nerf plugin to reduce your core wiith 30-40 % if you use it with other ships I would propose to buff it actually.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Sava]

IMG patrols are too powerfull.
4*cl.9 Vampires and 2*cl.9 Debilitators. Tau-23 gives same feeling as solo raiding Gamma/Alpha in 4.85.

[Jack_Henderson]

IMG patrols are too powerfull.
4*cl.9 Vampires and 2*cl.9 Debilitators. Tau-23 gives same feeling as solo raiding Gamma/Alpha in 4.85.

I can confirm that they are powerful (I angered them with a CD yesterday and paid quite a price).

But: I think that the high level NPCs should spawn near their home bases. They are meant to offer an advantage in fighting to the defender. As long as all bases have the chance of spawning high level NPCs in their direct vicinity, I do not think it is a bug that needs fixing.

Furthermore: The server is most often too full for any NPCs to be around.

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[mjolnir]

@Sammaels

What about if I use them on Eagle or Ravens Talon? I still get no nerf and they are still OP. I tested both on Wolf and Grey- I would go with Codes on Grey- it just does not have enough shield breaking power with Sammaels. They work good on Wolf.
If you could manage to make the auto nerf plugin to reduce your core wiith 30-40 % if you use it with other ships I would propose to buff it actually.

If you use them on Eagle or RT with Rogue ID (or any other ID) you should get powerplant nerf, I'll double check if this is the case.

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Just a few points else:

The one about "turning can be used by less than 100 people" - on a server with around 200 people on daily, that's a significant part of the population.

Ships are balanced as ship + gun combination and any guns which don't belong to the ship and would upset that balance should be nerfed enough by the plugin, if not it's the fault of the plugin setup.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.