Terrorist ID: Is it even needed?

[Sprolf]

Terrorists are people who are not afraid to take innocent lives to forward their cause, either through the following genesis of panic, terror, or destabilisation of infrastructure, etc etc. They work for an idealogical goal.

Pirates are people who are not afraid to commit crimes to benefit themselves. This may incidentally include killing, and usually involves some form of monetary theft, be it of cargo or credits. Taking lives, however, is usually a last resort for pirates and it is not what they have in mind. They work for themselves.

It is impossible to be a good Terrorist with a Pirate ID, as you can not kill transports and freighters - traders - who are the most "innocent" lives on Discovery, basically civilians - part of the civilian workforce and infrastructure, anyway. Transports are seldom attached to military - or non-civilian - factions.

It's impossible to effectively be a terrorist with the Pirate ID, because you can only ask for cargo and kill on occasion. Pirates are interested in omitting crimes for gain of wealth, Terrorists do it for primarily more idealogical reasons, ones they are not afraid to kill for.


With the Terrorist ID, you can indeed kill these people, as being a "terrorist" would demand. Killing to push your cause is all that matters.

With the Pirate ID, you can't at all, as being a "pirate" would demand. Loot before killing.

Please see this post, I think it's rather illuminating.

---

[AJBeast]

Well I said in that specific situation the Terrorist Character does not have to stay silent. He can make a funny poem or a scary saying of how he enjoys watching things burns and THEN he fires. You asked me whether or not a demand was needed, that was your statement, you did not mention anything about being a mute fella. I would find that pretty good RP if it's not just some "Wooo I'm scary now you dai!". Hell do I know if people are creative its up to that specific character to show me, but of course with a Terrorist ID I expect some quality.

I related the mute and terrorist situations because both show restrictions in how you contribute to the RP universe. A person that kills everything and blows everything up contributes to it by stopping others from RPing. It's counterproductive.

I wrote a post three pages ago, but I'm going to write a new one.

AJ, you have an axe to grind. When it comes to anyone with a terrorist-type ID, all I've seen is bitching, with no suggestions other than "let me escape" or "take away their privileges". And yet, I have yet to see anyone who actually holds a terrorist-type ID to dismiss you out of hand, even though others do. In the Phantom feedback thread, they asked for the situation and analyzed it when you provided it. Your complaints here have been discussed by the people you're complaining about.

*snip*

So, is this just another "you guys blow up my powertrader I hate you you shouldn't exist" thread, or does anyone have specific complaints? Go on, give us a situation and tell us what we should have done differently, thinking about it from our perspective. I dare you, just like you "dared" the Phantoms.
EDIT: Seth's got a good point. We get our PvP mainly by defending the hordes of people who come after us rather than going out and looking for it. The terrorist ID pretty much paints "Acceptable Target" on you ingame. Shame that carries over to the forums.

And once again you as most everyone else falls into the same mistake of being so smug and egotistical to believe you are perfect and everyone else is wrong. I don't do this "because I got blown up", I do it out of principle. I see something counter-productive and harmful to the roleplay environment, something that facilitates PvP whoring, double standards and bias and worst of all, I see it being admin-sponsored and I want to show my point of view to the community and see if I am missing anything, if I am indeed right in the stance I took. Nearly everyone other than Zeltak gave me either complete BS or arguments with no backing to them.

If you want to throw poop, the door is right there. Kthnxbai.

PS: You want specific arguments? Ask them from the community in general. Mine are already posted in the respective feedback threads.

PPS: I didn't give any suggestions in the situations I faced because I saw none. Talking about the Phantoms, as I presume you were, they "cornered" themselves into a RP in which it is very hard to do anything other than PvP whore. Or at least, so I would think taking from what I have experienced.

[Hawk]

I've said this before. Space is not a safe place. Terrorist ID keeps things realistic. There are people in the world who operate on a different set of rules than everyone else and just don't care about decency. The ID just gives the Admins a chance to control it. It's not breaking a rule, it's keeping half the community from going hog wild with a good idea.

If you think something is out of sorts on this server because of the way people are acting, it's probably because this community mirrors real life very well. Life is not perfect and there will always be people who don't do things the way you think they should. That's the world we live in and it's a challenge you will have to deal with until the day you die......get used to it.

---

[sovereign]

And once again you as most everyone else falls into the same mistake of being so smug and egotistical to believe you are perfect and everyone else is wrong. I don't do this "because I got blown up", I do it out of principle. I see something counter-productive and harmful to the roleplay environment, something that facilitates PvP whoring, double standards and bias and worst of all, I see it being admin-sponsored and I want to show my point of view to the community and see if I am missing anything, if I am indeed right in the stance I took. Nearly everyone other than Zeltak gave me either complete BS or arguments with no backing to them.

If you want to throw poop, the door is right there. Kthnxbai.

PS: You want specific arguments? Ask them from the community in general. Mine are already posted in the respective feedback threads.

Did I say I was perfect? I'd be lying if I did. Actually, I think I told you that if you caught someone I'm responsible for doing something undeserving of the trust placed in them (I'm responsible for myself too) that I'd string them up by their man parts.

Now, "harmful to the roleplay environment"...

You know why Das Wilde went to Bretonia in the first place? Because we were asked to. By the Queen of Bretonia. Because we were wanted to build off of RP, and to build a story there- which we did. There's dozens of pages of RP just on the forums about the Cambridge event series, and I do mean DOZENS, not to mention the countless interaction ingame that resulted in piles of kudos's flying every which way. Not to mention everything we've done since then, or anything inspired by it, or Austin Goodmen, or...

Do you want me to drag up the kudos and compare them to specific examples of "I don't think Das Wilde should have done this here"? I can, but you'd have to give me a week because we've been doing this for over a year and there's a lot of them.

Admin sponsored... and you say we're the ones ignoring the facts? Would you like me to explain what happened to the last SRP that Das Wilde filled out? The admins definitely have a close eye on us, and most certainly don't just let us do whatever. Hell, go back to the original faction creation request. Korrd came out in the first page or so and said "NO" pretty loudly, as did a few others.

We have feedback threads, which are used. Specific complaints are addressed, as they have always been. Find me something that we ignored. Go on. I "dare" you. The onus is on you, as you're the one calling me and mine pvp-whoring and the admin's pets.

Give me something to address, and I'll address it. Until then, shut the f*** up, I do not take baseless insults kindly.

EDIT: Oh, were you just insulting me because you thought I was a Phantom? That's rich. I'm not. The peeps I have with terrorist-type IDs are

Hektor.Schneider (Das Wilde Wraith VHF)
Hektor.Schneider. (Das Wilde Bergelmir bomber)
Vorzeichen (Das Wilde Scorpion gunboat drone)
Mishi.Miyazawa (Aoi Iseijin Chimaera) - name soon to change, though

---

[Gin*]

Since I have not a Terrorist ID, I can only speak for one side. First, yes there are people who simply takes advantage of shooting anyone, anywhere with very little RP behind it and yes, there is also the other side, people who actually carry out their role without shooting at anything, it is as always a responsibility of the person who has this ID and to sum it up yes the Terrorist ID is needed for people who wants to take their RP on a level which normal ID dont allow. just my 2 cents on that matter:D

---

[AJBeast]

Did I say I was perfect? I'd be lying if I did. Actually, I think I told you that if you caught someone I'm responsible for doing something undeserving of the trust placed in them (I'm responsible for myself too) that I'd string them up by their man parts.

Do not make false assumptions about people if you don't want such interpretations to shine through then.

Now, "harmful to the roleplay environment"...

You know why Das Wilde went to Bretonia in the first place? Because we were asked to. By the Queen of Bretonia. Because we were wanted to build off of RP, and to build a story there- which we did. There's dozens of pages of RP just on the forums about the Cambridge event series, and I do mean DOZENS, not to mention the countless interaction ingame that resulted in piles of kudos's flying every which way. Not to mention everything we've done since then, or anything inspired by it, or Austin Goodmen, or...

Do you want me to drag up the kudos and compare them to specific examples of "I don't think Das Wilde should have done this here"? I can, but you'd have to give me a week because we've been doing this for over a year and there's a lot of them.

To be honest, the Wilde are the second best regarded exclusive faction in my eyes, beaten only by the SCRA. Most likely due to my lack of interaction with you, but meh.

Admin sponsored... and you say we're the ones ignoring the facts? Would you like me to explain what happened to the last SRP that Das Wilde filled out? The admins definitely have a close eye on us, and most certainly don't just let us do whatever. Hell, go back to the original faction creation request. Korrd came out in the first page or so and said "NO" pretty loudly, as did a few others.

We have feedback threads, which are used. Specific complaints are addressed, as they have always been. Find me something that we ignored. Go on. I "dare" you. The onus is on you, as you're the one calling me and mine pvp-whoring and the admin's pets.

The Wilde, Keepers and such factions that were already in Vanilla are a different kettle of fish to the singular terrorists, Phantoms and other terrorizing factions that popped up after that. A Wilde wouldn't go "GIVE ME YOUR EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYES!" and blow you to bits. They are, however, present in Vanilla and someone needs to represent them.

By "admin sponsored" I mean that your IDs have less restrictions because the administrating team allowed it to be so. What people do matters much more than what they think/say.

Give me something to address, and I'll address it. Until then, shut the f*** up, I do not take baseless insults kindly.

EDIT: Oh, were you just insulting me because you thought I was a Phantom? That's rich. I'm not. The peeps I have with terrorist-type IDs are

Hektor.Schneider (Das Wilde Wraith VHF)
Hektor.Schneider. (Das Wilde Bergelmir bomber)
Vorzeichen (Das Wilde Scorpion gunboat drone)
Mishi.Miyazawa (Aoi Iseijin Chimaera) - name soon to change, though

I already gave something to address, something you completely ignored. In case you missed it, I will say it again: What role does the Terrorist ID allows to play that other IDs don't already?

As for the so called "insults", I remember a portuguese saying that said "Se a carapu?a serve.". Can't remember an equivalent in english, meh. Basically, if you think that what I said suits you, fine. I didn't come out and say "All Terrorists are pvpwhoring retards." I said the IDs encourage that.

On the edit... How cute, making baseless accusations again. Unless you actually know me, you shut the **** up and don't go around baseless insults yourself.


Anyways, I see this thread de-railing really fast. People seem more interested in flinging poop than addressing an issue. As such, I request for a lock. If anyone has a bone to pick with me, feel free to yell via skype.

[sovereign]

Do not make false assumptions about people if you don't want such interpretations to shine through then.
To be honest, the Wilde are the second best regarded exclusive faction in my eyes, beaten only by the SCRA. Most likely due to my lack of interaction with you, but meh.

<sarcasm> Why thanks, I'm sure that if I get to know you I'll learn that you're not a shining example of RP but rather a pvpwhoring tard too. </sarcasm>

I already gave something to address, something you completely ignored. In case you missed it, I will say it again: What role does the Terrorist ID allows to play that other IDs don't already?

I did miss it the first time, but then I found it and responded to it.

Cambridge event series. The BAF have an important artifact (The Sword in the Stone), Das Wilde is trying to take it. Direct force has failed, so Das Wilde asks the BAF to return it and avoid more bloodshed. The BAF say they'd rather have their people die than help us.

So we oblige. We send teams into Bretonian sovereign territory and kill everything that moves, saying that the killing will stop as soon as the BAF return to the negotiation table. The point is not to get anything from the traders. The point is to cause an incident with the Bretonian government and force them into acting. If we let the civilians weasel their way out, it would not have so much impact, and the brets could just say "it's your own fault for not paying them". This way, there is only one response, and it's the response we want.

THAT is terrorism. Killing innocents to get what you want from others.

Moving right along, no, you didn't say

"All Terrorists are pvpwhoring retards."

not in so many words, anyway, but when I see this-

I see something counter-productive and harmful to the roleplay environment, something that facilitates PvP whoring, double standards and bias and worst of all, I see it being admin-sponsored

-it kind of implies that you're calling me a pvpwhore, and saying that the very existence of my characters is harmful to the roleplay environment. I do take offense to that, unless you can show me something I'm doing that actually does harm the roleplay environment.

On the edit... How cute, making baseless accusations again. Unless you actually know me, you shut the **** up and don't go around baseless insults yourself.

The thing I edited in response to seeing was this:

PPS: I didn't give any suggestions in the situations I faced because I saw none. Talking about the Phantoms, as I presume you were, they "cornered" themselves into a RP in which it is very hard to do anything other than PvP whore. Or at least, so I would think taking from what I have experienced.

Sounds kind of like you saying that you presume I was a Phantom, and that the Phantom you presume I was was a pvp-whore, ergo you are presuming that I'm a pvpwhore.

Anyways, I see this thread de-railing really fast.

De-railing? No, it's exactly on the topic you started. If you don't like it, that's your right, maybe you should have pondered that before starting the thread.

---

[Elsdragon]

Well, Its only needed to say "we trust you to not abuse what you could have been abusing, so here. Use wisely" . Technically, anyone with a pirate ID can be a terrorist. The terroist ID really just lets you Do what you can already do, Just that you are trusted to do it without much Protocol

---

No longer a slave to the man!

[kuth]

Kuthmii I've come to expect nothing less from, but whatever. If he gives me something more specific than "you suck do this even when it doesn't make sense" then I'll work with it, because even when most people would just click "ignore" I keep trying. Anyone remember what I was like during Akumabito's days? I just don't quit. I answer everything, because if I can't then something is wrong on my end and that means it's up to me to fix it. If you put something specific in here and I missed it point it out again, I've been too busy dealing with skype to read everything.

If a member of Das Wilde goes ***darkname*** and shoots you with nothing else until you're dead, and we can't explain why later, then I'll personally string them up by their man parts. There have been, however, times that we -do- things kind of like that, though I make a point to explain at first opportunity. During the Cambridge events series, we were racking up civilian casualties to try and force the BAF into caving to our demands. The entire point was to kill people, not to acquire materials or anything. Those that survived were told why we were doing it so that they could tell tales and complain to the BAF.

See, this is what AJ refers to. Certain people, feel they are better than others, period.

My grind with these factions? I was blown up by a Keeper who spit out 2 lines of ***XXX*** of which I didn't have a chance to fully read before it killed me. They were presets it seemed. I wasn't even on a trade ship. I was in the middle of an on going one hour plus RP session with an indie LPI.

I haven't ran into a Das Wilde nor a Phantom so I cannot comment on them with any merit.

Now, I only said what I said because it isn't just me experienceing this. Many many people on this server complain about them. I've seen people on Skype say when they see Phantoms incoming they accept they are dead, even if they RP with the Phantoms. Whats the point of RP'n with a group that is always going to kill you when you encounter them? They get to have their fun at your expense every time and when you say "Hey guys can you RP with me?" All we get from the members of these factions is "Quit whining its our RP and we aren't breaking any rules."

The Keeper that grinded me was Tenacity from what I can find on the forums, and while I find him to be a good person; he thinks the Phantoms/Keepers/Wilde are some sort of rule enforcing police on the server. Ensuring that all those silent power traders learn to RP. Kinda makes the rest of us mad when these factions are allowed by the server rules to ignore the rules.

How does this tie in to the Terrorist ID?

As Tena already agreed with, you should be able to predict the behavoir of a pirate. You shouldn't be able to predict the behavoir of a terrorist? Of which Keepers/Phantoms/Wilde fall into. Yet you can predict their behavoir. You can predict you are most likely dead. In my experince that is the case with the Keepers, as I didn't have a chance to even respond or fully read what the Keeper said. Was I contacted after I died with any kind of info as to why I was killed? No. The Keeper simply left the system.

I don't want any of these factions to be removed nor do I want the Terrorist ID removed. I wan them to actually RP with the rest of us instead of simply killing us because the server rules have been set up in a way to allow them to. Nevermind the fact that they are closed factions of which are ran by admins, ex-admins, or friends of admins. All of which have a say in the server rules. Conspiracy? No. Simply fact of human nature.

Cambridge event series. The BAF have an important artifact (The Sword in the Stone), Das Wilde is trying to take it. Direct force has failed, so Das Wilde asks the BAF to return it and avoid more bloodshed. The BAF say they'd rather have their people die than help us.

So we oblige. We send teams into Bretonian sovereign territory and kill everything that moves, saying that the killing will stop as soon as the BAF return to the negotiation table. The point is not to get anything from the traders. The point is to cause an incident with the Bretonian government and force them into acting. If we let the civilians weasel their way out, it would not have so much impact, and the brets could just say "it's your own fault for not paying them". This way, there is only one response, and it's the response we want.

THAT is terrorism. Killing innocents to get what you want from others.

^ That is terrorism. Thing is, do you people even bother letting the 'innocent' traders know why you are killing them? Do you bother taking into account that you just ruined their fun to get your fun? I'd be fine if I was one of those innocent traders, but if no one explained it to me I'd be pissed. We shouldn't have to come to the forums with screens saying, "WTF!" in order to understand what happened. You, as the person granted extra freedoms because you are better at RP then us should explain it to us so we understand it.

---

Lurker

[mwerte]

^ That is terrorism. Thing is, do you people even bother letting the 'innocent' traders know why you are killing them? Do you bother taking into account that you just ruined their fun to get your fun? I'd be fine if I was one of those innocent traders, but if no one explained it to me I'd be pissed. We shouldn't have to come to the forums with screens saying, "WTF!" in order to understand what happened. You, as the person granted extra freedoms because you are better at RP then us should explain it to us so we understand it.

People who are dead can't tell the BAF anything, so why bother telling them why they're dying?

---