By the time I got to this thread, I don't have anything else to add.
Im glad that white cells are not restricted anymore.
I think the way its turned out with red cells only being enforced is a markedly good thing.
It wont stop some of the stupidity that A&L Guy described, but at least it will prevent the most blantant failures like Rogues with Imperators (of which I had one undock from Buffalo and shoot me ... )
Changes are aimed at the average player. This meant that the ability to purchase ships would not be allowed in game. Certainly, it needs tweaking but instead of reasoned debate and measured responses with alternatives suggested, we get ...this. It's bloody depressing. I'm pretty appalled at the reactions here. Kind of reminiscent of a lynch mob.
Not one of you suggested a different way to approach it. How exactly did this make things supremely harder for white cell combinations? Could anyone give me a concrete example of how this would make life any more difficult for them right now apart from some hypothetical scenario someone dreams up?
So we can expect more generic ID'd people in Tridentes and more "you can't fly that" and more trawling through the forums to find sub-forum a, paragraph b. Many generic ID'd players will still get harassed in game in the most unimaginative way possible and face sanctions for doing nothing other than what the game allows them, and that is the problem. As for leaving non-approved white cells to a roleplay response - well, no. Why should we devote time giving credibility to the lamest of lame justifications for having something - the "I stole it" story? Why should we have to harass players who feel they've done nothing wrong by causing them such annoyance?
I was going to rant some more, but I have just had a mild stroke.
Ok, first of all, I think we can all agree that stopping red cell purchases as well as ship types not allowed by ID is a good thing. For the white cell area, it seems to get trickier (see also: this thread). So for an alternative, is something like the following possible?
When a player goes to buy a ship that would otherwise be white to their ID, the system would do two things. First of all, it would check rep and require it to be above a certain amount. This should be rather easily obtainable (and probably would already be there just from being allies) for most things, but a bit trickier for ships that would require guard rep (thinking capships in this regard primarily). After purchase, you get a little warning message telling you that you may need faction approval, gives a link for it, and requires a confirmation (something like /acceptship). If you don't and try to do something else, you get kicked and don't get the ship; If you do, you're all set. This way there can be no one saying that they are ignorant of the rules.
With this then, for example, an LWB pilot wanting an Arbeiter would only need some small Unioner rep, which would be simple as LWB and Unioner reps are linked. A Hessian wanting to get a Scylla, on the other hand, would require a bit more work. Both need permission still and would have to confirm.
' Wrote:Changes are aimed at the average player. This meant that the ability to purchase ships would not be allowed in game. Certainly, it needs tweaking but instead of reasoned debate and measured responses with alternatives suggested, we get ...this. It's bloody depressing. I'm pretty appalled at the reactions here. Kind of reminiscent of a lynch mob.
Not one of you suggested a different way to approach it. How exactly did this make things supremely harder for white cell combinations? Could anyone give me a concrete example of how this would make life any more difficult for them right now apart from some hypothetical scenario someone dreams up?
So we can expect more generic ID'd people in Tridentes and more "you can't fly that" and more trawling through the forums to find sub-forum a, paragraph b. Many generic ID'd players will still get harassed in game in the most unimaginative way possible and face sanctions for doing nothing other than what the game allows them, and that is the problem. As for leaving non-approved white cells to a roleplay response - well, no. Why should we devote time giving credibility to the lamest of lame justifications for having something - the "I stole it" story? Why should we have to harass players who feel they've done nothing wrong by causing them such annoyance?
I was going to rant some more, but I have just had a mild stroke.
You don't get suggestions, reasoned debate, measured responses - from your perspective - due to mayhaps the fact that this was supposed to be a very drastical change.
[color=#FFFF99]Ergo, first comes the rage, once that's cooled down, you get the good stuff.
Normal human behaviour, si.
Still, as for your scenario?
Just as hypothetical a scenario as the one I presented, I could say.
I mean, I didn't see either happen personally, sooo... yup.
Hopefully I will not do in the future.
Even though it might be lulz.
Maybe what you see is akin to a preemptive measure.
Shoot the Zombie in the head before it gets close and ruins your day, because you just can see it coming that it will bite you and wreck your world.
But who beeth my humble self, just a lone little worker bee doing it for the lulz, to speak up to ye, oh great Lord and Master of Farsight.
[font=Trebuchet Ms]But since you asked that question of yours... y'know, let me repeat myself here in a way, oh Kind One, and counter thine with mine.
' Wrote:Why should we have to harass players who feel they've done nothing wrong by causing them such annoyance?
[font=Trebuchet Ms][color=#FFFFFF]Why should you have to make life harder for players who abide by the code of conduct and ruleset, have done not a single thing wrong, have their character, have done the existing paperwork with their character, and who just wanted to continue their roleplay with a more individually distinctive approach to their in-game avatar (Read: Ship.)?
[color=#000000]Now we can kindly continue running in circles and so on etcetera, however, we can simply say:
The idea behind it was a good one.
The implementation of said idea however, was rather "sloppy and poor".
It comes as no surprise that a fair amount of people would get upset by said implementation.
Since, you know, you would've been cutting their freedoms in a way, albeit not directly.
You would've been doing it by making things unnecessarily harder for them.
Even though they've done not a thing wrong.
So, in other words...
You saw a problem, and took the first chance at solving it.
However you didn't think the matter through and went with a half-arsed solution.
That one pissed people off mad good.
Pissed-off people tend to yell.
Usually at the one who pissed them off.
That would be you.
[font=Tahoma][color=#CC66CC]Short-term solutions are nice, but they're band-aids.
[color=#FF99FF]You don't fix severe internal bleeding with a band-aid. You do it with surgery, which provides a long-term solution.
Makes sense, si?
And goes without saying that surgery is something that requires proper thought and preperation in order to be successful, da?
<div align="right]On a completely unrelated note: I heard somewhere that it was the Administrations duty to prevent fires from occuring in the first place... Whereas we as individual members of this community were given the responsibility to put out the occassional small fires arising.
A nice... theory.
[font=Comic Sans Ms]Long [color=#FF99FF]liveDiscovery.
Red Cells restriction is fine since if a player would fly a ship that is considered a "red-cell" he would get sanctioned without a SRP-request anyways. So that is just minimizing sanction work load and helping players who are not aware of the tech-chart to make a mistake. Which is all goodie.
As for the White Cells, no need to comment on it since it has been removed now. But if you wanted to hear my opinion anyways, I agree completely, fully, without any doubt, 100%, etc. etc., with the "lynch mob" as Athenian ironically put it.
I say as far as this restriction thing goes in theory, it should stay at the Red-Cells section. Now what you should focus on are the possible loop-holes to get around it and tweak it so it blocks those loop-holes. I hope that the "restriction boundaries" will stay at the Red-Cells only, I would be unhappy to see any more changes on that area. And yes, if I do see it, I will voice my opinion as a:
Of course people get mad. More and more restrictions and more and more hassle equals less and less fun to play.
This is what I'd like to see this plugin used for, if possible:
* All official factions get an official faction ID.
* All members of these official factions need to apply for the ID through their faction leader.
* All HIGH GRADE military equipment (top class weapons, shields, armor, etc.) for all ship classes would be restricted access to those only carrying the official faction ID. I think adding new equipment, Mark10 weapons and similar for the capital ship classes, slightly better shields, MarkIX armor, etc. would mean a player wipe should not be needed.;)
* The same could - if voted on and accepted by the majority - be implemented to access the top-of-the-line capital ships.
Now that the cat is out of the bag - make use of it!
My characters on Disco: [LN]-Andy.Doggett, The.Flying.Betty, Russ.Dalton, Harald.Treutiger
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