Tranports vs Caps

[casero]

That's why I said it depends how it's played.

Of course, they didn't build them for piracy, and I understand that you -must- pirate someone because you just ran into him.
How can you tell the difference from 1 cruiser being there for X reason, and 1 being there for the only intention to pirate?

While you have a valid point, and I said it before, there are people who will use it just to make pirate faster.

Let's not forget the Rogues. Did they make the Scylla to attack Navy? Don't be ridiculous.

No, I'm sure they built a giant ship just to pirate in one of the most crowded houses with capital ships. Don't be ridiculous.
But using it to defend themself from curious navy ships, yes, that sounds more likely. When they pirate, they hit and run, yes, I see how the cruiser fit in that.

[Curios]

If cruiser thruster speed (max speed) will be < transport thruster speed, its np for cruiser pirating because transport can simply thrust away.

---

[Elven]

The Mollys may not have built it with that thought in mind, but would it really just let a trader go by when the opportunity presents itself?

Let's not forget the Rogues. Did they make the Scylla to attack Navy? Don't be ridiculous.

Whether or not the ships were built for the purpose is neither here nor there. It's that, when faced with the situation where they in-RP would take advantage of the transport they cannot. Whenever I've been on a trader faced with a cruiser, I play as if I'm scared to death.

Also, adding a clause to the OC Guard/Corsair Guard ID that cruisers can't leave the Omicrons/Taus (Outcasts) and Omicrons/Omegas (Corsairs) (and maybe Sigmas for both) would limit them from being used freely in piracy, since they are "freely" purchasable.

Rouges build their cruisers to make moveable bases to support their organisation members for piracy. Those ships aren't efficient for piracy, though, a pair of Barghests is more usefull, because you can shoot transport and get away with part of it's cargo.

If you think Outcasts won't pirate in Taus, you're highly mistaken, Niobium Ore, for example? It's pure cash!
Or Omegas and Corsairs? Corsairs camping Freistadt for Gold Ore haulers? No, thanks.
And no, I don't have gold miner.

Guess what .. I'm in BAF and I know ... Still, I didn't say that this is a MUSt, but a scenario, a possibility ... need a dictionary for that ?

A possibility of cruiser on duty running for some trader which isn't that impotant as possible attack by KNF or some terrorists?

[Tenacity]

If a transport can't escape a battleship, it deserves to die.

Escaping a battleship is easy enough, they dont typically have cruise disruptors or thrusters. Escaping a cruiser is an entirely different story.

Personally, I think that lawfuls should be able to defend a trader regardless of the ship they or the pirate are flying. I hate this loophole where pirates can use a transport-class ship and be immune to any passing military vessel whether they're pirating at the time or not.

Unlawfuls should still not be able to pirate in cruisers/battleships, however. The unlawfuls build those warships to defend their bases and fight other enemies with the same types of vessels (rogues using the scylla to harass the liberty navy, or corsair/outcast cruisers/battleships fighting one another, for example).

---

[Elven]

Escaping a battleship is easy enough, they dont typically have cruise disruptors or thrusters. Escaping a cruiser is an entirely different story.

Personally, I think that lawfuls should be able to defend a trader regardless of the ship they or the pirate are flying. I hate this loophole where pirates can use a transport-class ship and be immune to any passing military vessel whether they're pirating at the time or not.

Unlawfuls should still not be able to pirate in cruisers/battleships, however. The unlawfuls build those warships to defend their bases and fight other enemies with the same types of vessels (rogues using the scylla to harass the liberty navy, or corsair/outcast cruisers/battleships fighting one another, for example).

While I half-agree, I want to admit LR aren't fighting with Navy actively (usually and IRP), they use Scylla as mobile base of operations.

[Harcourt.Fenton.Mudd]

Also, adding a clause to the OC Guard/Corsair Guard ID that cruisers can't leave the Omicrons/Taus (Outcasts) and Omicrons/Omegas (Corsairs) (and maybe Sigmas for both) would limit them from being used freely in piracy, since they are "freely" purchasable.

Indeed, or better yet for all pirate factions that have anything larger than a GB, set a ZoI on where those big ships are allowed to pirate.


Now, just one example, the OC could prehaps pirate in caps in Alpha (which they allready can), their guard systems, and possibly expand it to Omicron Beta as well due to their military conflicts with the GMG, a warzone is a dangerous place to trade afterall. Add Eta, same reason but 'sairs/OC. Infact, most unlawful group warzone systems would be good candidates for open cap piracy, unless the system has a lawful presence, so for example Om5 would be open to 'sair/hessian piracy due to the fact that its just them there (tho I'd lol HARD at a cap trying to stop my whale in all those rocks........ ditto with 41 or parts of 47).

From the same line of thought, non [MR] mollies that dont accept the armastace could pirate with caps in Dublin, it's a warzone, their presence is no secret, etc etc.


But yeah my two cents, resonable ZoIs for each faction on were they can and cant do stuff. If unlawfuls are in open warfare and keeping the caps secret is no longer an issue, THEN their pirating is no issue.

Plus it also helps that so many of said systems are full of rocks, which would give an added chance to traders.


OC/IMG in the Tau 37/23, rocks all over

OC/'sairs in eta.

OC/GMG im Beta

'sairs/RHA in 41/47/5 MAYBE 11, but thats got a jumpgate so I'd lean to saying no on that one, omegas 7 and 3 deffinite no's due to gates AND lanes, maming house overpowering response way to easy to happen with a hurry.

non-armastace Mollies/BAF in Dublin, it'd be no secret that mollies have caps, and equaly no secret that not all mollies will follow the [MR] into attempting peace, so this would mean that those that dont choose peace can pirate (and deal with challenger swarms, the lawful barghest)

Id go on more, but not that knowledgable of Kusari and rhinland based unlawful issues, however .....

Chugoku is allready a go-zone for BD caps to pirate, home system and all that.

Hokkaido, the BD and GC are trying to keep the gate from being built, thus open attacks on the KNF. I cant remember the names of the Nebulae's, however heres what I, thinking in this case would make sense.
One cloud has either samura or Kishiro mining ops in it as well as the gate. within that cloud, no piracy as its too risky, past that maybe only allow it in the form of RP to stop supplies from reaching the construction site, (IE: if theyre not going there, caps ignroe em). That or add bobmer NPCs near the allreay constructed gate to make caps avoid that particular area and just allow it thruout the system, as this is a warzone system to a great extent.

Tohoku, allready ratehr unsafe for traders to be in that system, due to the large nomad and kusari wilde populations, so prehaps allow it there as well.


But as for the way to decide: if unlawfuls are in open large scale conflcit with a lawful faction in a system, consider allowing it in that system for That faction.
Two unlawful factions got a warzone, no lawful presence to deter caps, allow cap piracy.


It's amazing tho, using that system I belive that almost all of the systems that would be 'open' to cap piracy would also contain quite a few rocks which would have the potentel to be quite useful for an escape.

Now this would ALSO mean that this would essently not apply at all in Liberty, execpt prehaps in Magellan due to the NTF (who wouldnt WANT to pirate with their spyglass in RP) due to the fact that the LH and LR tend to be very quiet and focus on profit rather than fighting the navy (that, and relying on barghest swarms instead)

No clue whatsoever how that'd work out in Gallic space, ditto Rhinland (and despite the above lists, to a large extent Kusari) because I simply dont operate there that often.

Rouges build their cruisers to make moveable bases to support their organisation members for piracy. Those ships aren't efficient for piracy, though, a pair of Barghests is more usefull, because you can shoot transport and get away with part of it's cargo.

If you think Outcasts won't pirate in Taus, you're highly mistaken, Niobium Ore, for example? It's pure cash!
Or Omegas and Corsairs? Corsairs camping Freistadt for Gold Ore haulers? No, thanks.
And no, I don't have gold miner.
A possibility of cruiser on duty running for some trader which isn't that impotant as possible attack by KNF or some terrorists?

Exactly, and that fits in perfectly with the basic template I posted for 'can a cap pirate here', you got rocks in pretty much all those places.

Freistadt wouldnt be an issue, because gates and lantes render it a no-go zone for cap piracy

Niob miners.......... pure out of luck, unless they can dodge rocks AND LMs, or at least dodge rocks better than the ship shooting the LMs.

[Shryke]

I think a lot of people missed my post (#20). Outcast/Corsair/RH Guard IDs prevent piracy in caps.

---

[Harcourt.Fenton.Mudd]

I think a lot of people missed my post (#20). Outcast/Corsair/RH Guard IDs prevent piracy in caps.

thats the point of this thread, discussing removing that.

Also, the demanding allied pilots bit in the ID is a bit misleading too since as far as I know the player STILL cant actualy DO anything to a transport (currently) that has allied pilots, unless in a GB or smaller, which renders the guard ID unnessacary as well.

[Elven]

Indeed, or better yet for all pirate factions that have anything larger than a GB, set a ZoI on where those big ships are allowed to pirate.
Now, just one example, the OC could prehaps pirate in caps in Alpha (which they allready can), their guard systems, and possibly expand it to Omicron Beta as well due to their military conflicts with the GMG, a warzone is a dangerous place to trade afterall. Add Eta, same reason but 'sairs/OC. Infact, most unlawful group warzone systems would be good candidates for open cap piracy, unless the system has a lawful presence, so for example Om5 would be open to 'sair/hessian piracy due to the fact that its just them there (tho I'd lol HARD at a cap trying to stop my whale in all those rocks........ ditto with 41 or parts of 47).

From the same line of thought, non [MR] mollies that dont accept the armastace could pirate with caps in Dublin, it's a warzone, their presence is no secret, etc etc.
But yeah my two cents, resonable ZoIs for each faction on were they can and cant do stuff. If unlawfuls are in open warfare and keeping the caps secret is no longer an issue, THEN their pirating is no issue.

Plus it also helps that so many of said systems are full of rocks, which would give an added chance to traders.
OC/IMG in the Tau 37/23, rocks all over

OC/'sairs in eta.

OC/GMG im Beta

'sairs/RHA in 41/47/5 MAYBE 11, but thats got a jumpgate so I'd lean to saying no on that one, omegas 7 and 3 deffinite no's due to gates AND lanes, maming house overpowering response way to easy to happen with a hurry.

non-armastace Mollies/BAF in Dublin, it'd be no secret that mollies have caps, and equaly no secret that not all mollies will follow the [MR] into attempting peace, so this would mean that those that dont choose peace can pirate (and deal with challenger swarms, the lawful barghest)

Id go on more, but not that knowledgable of Kusari and rhinland based unlawful issues, however .....

Chugoku is allready a go-zone for BD caps to pirate, home system and all that.

Hokkaido, the BD and GC are trying to keep the gate from being built, thus open attacks on the KNF. I cant remember the names of the Nebulae's, however heres what I, thinking in this case would make sense.
One cloud has either samura or Kishiro mining ops in it as well as the gate. within that cloud, no piracy as its too risky, past that maybe only allow it in the form of RP to stop supplies from reaching the construction site, (IE: if theyre not going there, caps ignroe em). That or add bobmer NPCs near the allreay constructed gate to make caps avoid that particular area and just allow it thruout the system, as this is a warzone system to a great extent.

Tohoku, allready ratehr unsafe for traders to be in that system, due to the large nomad and kusari wilde populations, so prehaps allow it there as well.
But as for the way to decide: if unlawfuls are in open large scale conflcit with a lawful faction in a system, consider allowing it in that system for That faction.
Two unlawful factions got a warzone, no lawful presence to deter caps, allow cap piracy.
It's amazing tho, using that system I belive that almost all of the systems that would be 'open' to cap piracy would also contain quite a few rocks which would have the potentel to be quite useful for an escape.

Now this would ALSO mean that this would essently not apply at all in Liberty, execpt prehaps in Magellan due to the NTF (who wouldnt WANT to pirate with their spyglass in RP) due to the fact that the LH and LR tend to be very quiet and focus on profit rather than fighting the navy (that, and relying on barghest swarms instead)

No clue whatsoever how that'd work out in Gallic space, ditto Rhinland (and despite the above lists, to a large extent Kusari) because I simply dont operate there that often.
Exactly, and that fits in perfectly with the basic template I posted for 'can a cap pirate here', you got rocks in pretty much all those places.

Freistadt wouldnt be an issue, because gates and lantes render it a no-go zone for cap piracy

Niob miners.......... pure out of luck, unless they can dodge rocks AND LMs, or at least dodge rocks better than the ship shooting the LMs.

Caps are being built for war. Direct (pvp) or indirect (carriers)
Non-[MR] Mollies - I doubt they'll be entrusted with Scylla, actually.
Concerning BD and GC: BD caps are rare and I'd be glad to discourage thier use, actually. Even lesser I'd be glad to see them pirating, I'm quite sceptical about BD pirating. BD caps are RP tool, not pvp. GC rarely fly gunships, I won't metion cruisers.
For other caps I already answered.


Leave everything as it is, people.
If you enjoy by piracy in cruiser, do that with taste and you won't get sanctioned - and if you will, you won't even care, because you enjoyed RP enough.

[William Frederick Cody]

As mentioned before, raise transport speed to 160-170, and we are clear.

If such fat ships like cruisers is allowed to shoot the traders, traders should be able to thrust away. Slowly, thrusting away, but still.


The question is the balance. Bye the way, i voted: "Yes"

---

Idiocy and blind spots. Hidden features for veteran players. Inform yourself here|Codenames and their locations

[url=http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=17248]SpacePics|False Friends|Tom Waits|Die Ärzte|Awful German Language|Cody's feedback thread|Cody' job board