Whether the two exist or not is immaterial. Whatever actions we may or may not take, we cannot change whether there is fate or not. Since nothing we can do can change the nature of this reality, any ponderance beyond the passing random thoughts on the subject are nothing more than a form of masturbation. We think deep thoughts on the issue and proclaim great theories that cannot ever be proven or disproven. In the end it is all just the stroking of egos and pontificating of puffed up charlatans who are as afraid of the unknown as the rest of us. I say to you philosophers, the time you spent on discourse and deductions regarding this subject could have been better spent in the arms of a willing lover.
Whether the two exist or not is immaterial. Whatever actions we may or may not take, we cannot change whether there is fate or not. Since nothing we can do can change the nature of this reality, any ponderance beyond the passing random thoughts on the subject are nothing more than a form of masturbation. We think deep thoughts on the issue and proclaim great theories that cannot ever be proven or disproven. In the end it is all just the stroking of egos and pontificating of puffed up charlatans who are as afraid of the unknown as the rest of us. I say to you philosophers, the time you spent on discourse and deductions regarding this subject could have been better spent in the arms of a willing lover.
(Do I win a cookie?)
I object!
This was an intellectual discussion until somebody somehow managed to get from determinism and free will to masturbation. I must admit that it is indeed a talent to do that, but it is still rude and needless. Please in the future reserve such comments for the flood.
Quote:Since nothing we can do can change the nature of this reality
And beyond any shade of doubt you will realise, that the world is within you, not you within the world.
We have no proof, how "this reality" looks like. We can only guess, based on what our mind is telling us. We are creating our own reality, so if we create it, we can change it as soon as we lift our current meta paradigm.
Quote:And beyond any shade of doubt you will realise, that the world is within you, not you within the world.
We have no proof, how "this reality" looks like. We can only guess, based on what our mind is telling us. We are creating our own reality, so if we create it, we can change it as soon as we lift our current meta paradigm.
Our minds are not creating reality, only interpreting. Interpretations may differ, but cannot change the physical nature of reality. No matter the amount of thought put into it, one cannot turn a solid into a gas without physical interaction. Therefore, physicality has more impact on reality than mentality, and all this thought is of less import than my flatulence.
Actually people know nothing, except the existence of themselves. "I think, therefore I am" Logic may be false, everything may be false! But I know for sure I exist. Because I am thinking I don't know for certain what thinking is why I am thinking what makes me think what it is I am thinking about, but I think. So there must be at least something and that must be me, whatever 'me' is.
However that was not really the subject of this thread was it?
every event has causative factors: i am writing this in response to your original post: your philosophy professor asked you to: the curriculum states that he had to: the board of education set out the curriculum: politicians were appointed to the board: politicians were elected on the basis of rhetoric: Zelot voted for those politicians...
ergo, this is all zelot's fault.
i meant this to be a serious expose of determinism against free will, saying that there is no such thing as determinism, that its all a coincidence, but i have convinced myself that determinism exists, and that it is zelots fault..
@Maelstrom: Your comments express only one opinion - and trust that the world is in itself 'real' and that it is not simply a construct of the mind.
As an example, when you dream your mind is both creating and experiencing its own false reality simultaneously at such a perfect rate that you do not realize you're in a dream until you wake up.
What if the world we think is 'real' - what if this reality we're all so convinced that we live in - is the same thing? A figment of our imaginations, a reality constructed by our own minds? And what if the only reason we all seem to percieve the same reality is because, as Schrodinger once said, "the total number of minds in the universe is one." In essence we are all fragments of the same mind, creating a reality for itself (and by extension, for ourselves).
Just as we cannot prove or disprove free will vs determinism, we cannot prove whether or not this reality is, in fact, real. That doesnt mean it isnt a possibility, it just means we have no means of discerning the truth, if such a thing exists at all.
And, if that is 'true' - if we really are constructing our own reality - then mental actions can have just as much, if not more, effect on this world than supposed physical actions.
@Coin: Both scientists and philosophers have used the causal chain of events to try and explain existence - eventually they go back and back until they reach the 'beginning' of the universe (if there ever was a beginning), and it ends. There is nothing we can percieve that explains the universe itself, so they end up falling back on "well, it must have been god!"
My point of view on that is... why? Why does there have to be a beginning, why does there have to be a cause or an explanation? What if the nature of reality isnt nothing, but rather the natural state of things is 'something'. Why did something have to come from nothing? It makes far more sense that something was always something to begin with and that there never was nothing.
Quote:Thats why I didnt study philosphy.
I already have all the answers.
If you had studied philosophy, you would know that you have no answers at all =P
Also, this isnt my major or anything, it's just an elective class to fill the credit requirements I need for my degree.
![[Image: sigmark2-1.jpg]](http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy293/barrenwaste/sigmark2-1.jpg)
![[Image: BioLinkimg-1.jpg]](http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy293/barrenwaste/BioLinkimg-1.jpg)
![[Image: yXeeIiN.png]](https://i.imgur.com/yXeeIiN.png)
![[Image: rPQpZ1j.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/rPQpZ1j.jpg)
![[Image: Tenacity.gif]](https://sig.grumpybumpers.com/host/Tenacity.gif)