There needs to be a limit on how much Pirates can demand....

[Anomander]

this topic back all over again...
I always try to negociate the amount of the money,
I always try to run - becouse it is natural that people do not want loose their money (but I check my chances).
I hate when I meet a somebody who demand a idiotic amount of cash (like 5M or dieee - when I fly with empty ship, or 13M od die when cargo is worth 500k tops)

So I'm pro cargo piracy, or set some I am for the introduction of a table where a pirate may request another pilot based on the value of the cargo and the player's desired level

---

<<< MuS|portfolio|RSF >>>

[cmfalconer]

*snip*
So I'm pro cargo piracy, or set some I am for the introduction of a table where a pirate may request another pilot based on the value of the cargo and the player's desired level.
*snip*

Two things immediately jump out at me that's wrong with this statement. Note: I am N O T picking on you Anomander, but you brought them up most currently and I'm going to address it.

1: I'm not sure, but you seem to be talking about the level indicator on the HUD. This is NOT inRP information as far as I'm concerned. I don't go walking around the town, looking at people, and know their power level is over 9000 (!) or whatever, so how would you know by flying up to a ship how much said ship has in the bank? You wouldn't. It's a game mechanic thing at best and metagaming at worst (*gasp! the M word!), and shouldn't be used in any way to gauge how much to charge a trader/miner/character of whatever ilk.

2: If you set a maximum piracy level, no matter what it is, you will always be charged the maximum. Let me repeat that. You will [color=white]A L W A Y S be charged the maximum. Why would a pirate charge less, unless they're there for gits and shiggles? Many pirates genuinely like what they do, and what they do is make money. Why would they charge 500k, 1m, or even 3m when the maximum charge is say 10m? Every pirate you meet will charge 10m immediately, no negotiations or whatever.

"But, you could charge based on a percentage of total cargo worth. Say maybe 25% or 33% of what the cargo's worth"

I call BS. Firstly, a pirate may or may not have that kind of information handy. How would an unlawful pirate know off hand what the going price of luxury goods on Planet New London is going for? It's analogous to following stock-market prices for everything made every day. I personally don't know what IBM's going for at this second, nor do I currently care.

"But you can look up IBM on the internet and get an instantaneous answer"

Point conceded. But, this would mean the pirate would have to ask where the destination is and do some metagaming w/ FLCompanion or some other useful program, a calculator, and then type back the demand. Or, instead of destination prices, the commonly accepted practice becomes whatever the highest buy price for a commodity is used. Then, if you're hauling Luxury food, it doesn't matter that you're hauling to New London where it's worth about 75% of what it is at the best sell location, you'll still be charged the highest amount.

Oops! There's that highest price thing again. A trader/miner will always again be charged the maximum if even the percentage schema is adopted.

Pitfalls and peril await anyone looking to make a quick-fix rule-change to this dilemma. I've personally learned this from years spent here on disco and in this exact same argument (comes up ever 2-3 months or so).

---

.

[CzeReptile]

Make piracy cargo only. Best way imo. And would finally give them some good RP reason to exist.

---

[DarthCloakedGuy]

Here's an idea (and its not new either): BAN PIRACY

No. Screw that.

Banning credit piracy would effectively force me off the server. And... pretty much every other bomber pirate.

---

HISPANIANS, FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF HER PEOPLE
A Plea to the Outcasts (PG)
CHARACTERS:
LR-I.Got.Nothin', LR-Empty.Pockets, and LR-Dead.End = &quot;Lash&quot; McDaggit of the Liberty Rogues.
SMUG~Eat.My.Exhaust = Jane Terraman and Bob McAdams, smugglers of the Liberty Rogues.
[H]Cj.Martino.Perez = Martino Perez, self-declared Counselor of the Hispanians.
AVATAR MADE BY SPIRIT! THE AWESOME.

[Hone]

This is the second stupidest thread I have seen in my life, why would you want to ban credit piracy? You want to strip the trader any chance to save his cargo?

As a trader, and as a pirate this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

I am becoming convinced this is all the idea of someone who just wants an excuse to PVP everything, as that is all banning credit piracy will do.

The admins won't do this, so for gods sake leave it alone.

---

User was banned for: Griefing others
Time left: (Permanent)

[dodike]

Make piracy cargo only. Best way imo. And would finally give them some good RP reason to exist.

It will make everyone fly PTrans which rapes transports like there is no tomorrow. Even Xenos.

[Banris]

I've personally learned this from years spent here on disco and in this exact same argument (comes up ever 2-3 months or so).

You're right about the 25% of the value of your cargo thing... Impossible to do that on the fly. What was I thinking? Hey, maybe a /pirate FL hook that does it for you! ;-)

I've seen many arguments like this as well over the last year that I've been here. I'm sure that if every person who played on the server had a forum account there would be many more like it.

What is the significance of this? A subject that repeatedly comes up in arguments and complaints.

Could this mean there is a real problem that needs to be addressed?

Maybe one of the following popular explanations?

A) There's just a vocal minority who Q_Q like babies when they don't bother to hire scouts and then get owned by every pirate from Tau-23 to New Berlin.

B) Pirates are vastly over-powered and there is a balancing issue with transports.

C) There's an admin/pirate conspiracy in place which favors pirates and is reflected in the rules and sanction reports.

D) There is an issue with the server rules, with pirates being allowed to run rampant with no limits on how much they can demand.


I would personally say that it's a combination of A, B and D. Who knows, tough subject really. Again and again though, it comes back to rule 0.0... Don't be jerks basically. We're all here to have fun.

---

La vengeance est un plat qui se mange froid.

[Marburg]

OK, funny story: (at least to me) so...I slip past a blockade from NY into Cali & realize very quickly that the blockade must have been formed because of some pirate overkill in system.

Shortly, my lane is disrupted & my trader is smack in the middle of a pirate overkill cluster-eff...3-or more separate pirates camping the same spot...Anyhoo, one of 'em gives the '2 mil or die' line...& being irritated by that, I decide to take over the pissing contest, now, although my typing speed sucks & I was unable to say everything I wanted, the bottom line was this: He demanded 2 mil, I said no: 1 mil instead ...he said this isn't a negotiation, & I replied that everything is a negotiation...I'm reasonable, so I offered 1 Mil then, another mil on my return trip...now, keep in mind that my char. doesn't flinch at pirates cause he's been drinking with those types for years, so here is where the funny starts: Here I am, surrounded by hostiles, yet they were so busy trying to pull off some assembly line piracy, that when other marks appeared, each & every one of us seemed to get confused as to who was talking to who...so I decided piss all over the pissing contest & eventually convinced the hacker to accept 50% less than he demanded.

Hell, when I'm on the other end of the stick, I don't ever put up with my type of snark & have no qualms about blasting away.

I guess you had to be there...but trust me, it was funny:crazy:

---

[cmfalconer]

You're right about the 25% of the value of your cargo thing... Impossible to do that on the fly. What was I thinking? Hey, maybe a /pirate FL hook that does it for you! ;-)

I've seen many arguments like this as well over the last year that I've been here. I'm sure that if every person who played on the server had a forum account there would be many more like it.

What is the significance of this? A subject that repeatedly comes up in arguments and complaints.

Could this mean there is a real problem that needs to be addressed?

Maybe one of the following popular explanations?

A) There's just a vocal minority who Q_Q like babies when they don't bother to hire scouts and then get owned by every pirate from Tau-23 to New Berlin.

B) Pirates are vastly over-powered and there is a balancing issue with transports.

C) There's an admin/pirate conspiracy in place which favors pirates and is reflected in the rules and sanction reports.

D) There is an issue with the server rules, with pirates being allowed to run rampant with no limits on how much they can demand.
I would personally say that it's a combination of A, B and D. Who knows, tough subject really. Again and again though, it comes back to rule 0.0... Don't be jerks basically. We're all here to have fun.

A very large A and a small b mainly for the second part about transports. C is just silly, everyone knows the admins are in cahoots with the nomads and the frogs. D is a non-issue either, as has been evidenced by about 6 pages here and about 600 pages elsewhere (seriously, do a search for Pirate Problem), so it's really A & B.

Mostly A. My favorite part about these discussions is most pirates, the real hardcore ones that pirate all the time w/o doing much else, always have these stories of f1-ing, running, no-english-speaking traders that "infest" the server. They are people who want to play here after all, just like everyone else who logs on, be they veterans or first-timers. How they are treated while starting out can have a large bearing on how they act later in their disco-life. Personally, I have thick skin and a general malaise about everything, so getting blown up doesn't bother me (after about 10 minutes of being infuriated that is). But if, as a new person, you're constantly assaulted by credit-hungry, rude, epeen-insecure pirates that are demanding gobs of hard-earned (and they are hard earned, whether miner or trader) credits constantly, that new person could probably think that it is the norm, and see how easy said person just made, in one short encounter, what the trader would make on his 20 minute trip. Gee, what would you do?

There are several pirates that I enjoy(ed) running into because no matter how it went, they did it "right". Phate was probably the best when it came to no-nonsense pirating with phenomenal RP. Mr. Sanguinetti comes in a close second for Hackers, and I believe was a protege of Phate. General Yar is someone I love to hate, but his RP is solid, even if it leaves a bad taste in my mouth (then again, I am Bretonian). The VR boys (and girls) in their hey-day were damn good pirates too. The one I miss most is Ivan, of OPG fame. Never once had a bad encounter with him. Sometimes I won, sometimes he won. Always creative (Great use of Dice and Coin), always talkative (imaging Corsairs and Bretonians having "spirited discussions" for lengthy periods), and an all around positive experience.

What do all of these pirates (and many more I know, I just haven't run into you enough) have in common? A general idea that it should be a positive experience for both parties, something that other pirates and people (spelled out earlier) seem to have forgotten.

So no, It's not a problem with the rules, it's not the seemingly all-encompassing Admin-Conspiracy (tin-foil hats optional), and it's not (completely) about overpowered pirates. It's really about the Q_Q, on BOTH sides of the argument, that keep bringing threads like this up. It is NOT a real problem, it's a problem of too many players having been coddled for most of their lives, and when a little adversity comes their way, the only way they know how to handle it is to whine to an authority figure. In this case, it's the admins, who seem to also be involved in the conspiracy.

Circular logic is circular.

---

.

[Anomander]

yeah - but Pirates supose to do for fun - not to get rich fast...
this is a problem - that most of pirates do this to make money not to have fun.

rule 0.0 says that this supose be fun for both sides.
but in over 90% cases it is not fun...

so maybe it would be some cash limit let's say 1M tops - or 500k tops - and high of amount supose be decrased if cargo is not worth that.

maybe that will bring better quality of RP - 500k is acetable amount for almost everybody...

---

<<< MuS|portfolio|RSF >>>