Discovery Mod: Balance Issues

[MrHeadphones]

From the Wiki:

Kraken type 2:
Damage 278/556
speed: 700
Range: 700
Energy: 126
Refire: 4.00
dps: 1112/2224
eps: 504
Type: Particle

Bretonian Ultra Sunrail
Damage: 270/540
Speed: 600
Range: 600
Energy: 145
Refire: 4.00
dps: 1080/2160
eps: 580
Type: Particle

For comparison: a gun with similar eps usage:
Medusa:
Dps: 1280/2560
Speed: 635
Range: 729
refire: 3.03
eps: 561 (lower than the Sunrail)
Type: CODENAME

This is quite honestly unbalanced. The Kraken outclasses the Sunrail in every way, and is far more widely available (6 white cells, no green for Bretonia, not counting Bretonian factions), (13 white cells, 1 green for Outcasts, not counting the Outcasts themselves). I believe there are three ways of addressing this balance:
1. Bring down the Sunrail's energy usage in line with its stats.
2. Bring up the Sunrail's stats to levels appropriate to its energy usage.
3. Redesign the Sunrail idea. The BPA) could use some 8.33s or 5.88s which are properly Bretonian

[Jinx]

kraken / sunrail comparison

don t compare those. - why?

- bretonia and ships with krakens hardly fight each other
- when you consider a gun - you also need to consider the ships that are most likely to use them
- the kraken 2 probably is one of the best public guns in the entire mod - compard to the kraken... many guns fall short.


when you want to compare the bretonian guns - compare them to:

- gaian guns
- molly guns
- corsair guns
- kusari lawful guns
- gallic guns ( but only up to a limit, cause gallia is supposed to be more advanced )




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about the gaisha ...

i really don t know what you mean when you say "behaves like an AT on meth" - do you mean its too agile? or sluggish?

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Sand-Viper]

It is agile yes, but its armor is relatively week for a transport with its cargo size. As well, it costs 60 mill, for a 2500 transport. That's quite an amount in comparison to other transports with similar cargo size.

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[Jinx]

regarding to its stats - it is less agile than the transport - but yes... it does outturn the tridente.

the tridente is around half its size. - but still a gunboat of course. - the gaisha is almost the same size / shape as the transport ( similar agility and of course 2.5x the cargo space )

however the gaisha also costs almost 60 million - while the transport costs 6 million. - there was a discussion about the gaisha when the version was released - and i believe - we thought it was quite balanced as it is. - the gaisha is easy to fly, hard to hit - but no alternative for a serious trader - also being sold entirely on honshu planet - its also not really a ship for an unlawful ( cuase they cannot buy it - being only sold on a kusari police base )

its weaponry is no match for a gunboat - but it is probably hard to hit for a lower skilled bomber pilot ( when you expect an easy target as a pirat )

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[MrHeadphones]

when you want to compare the bretonian guns - compare them to:

Sunrail, for reference:
Damage: 270/540
Speed: 600
Range: 600
Energy: 145
Refire: 4.00
dps: 1080/2160
eps: 580

- gaian guns

Gaia's Angel
Damage: 160/320
Speed: 750
Range: 600
Energy: 90
Refire: 5.88
dps: 941:1882
eps: 529
Conclusion: 25% faster firing, 12.4% less damage, 9% less energy usage. Has advantages and disadvantages. Probably better due to its higher speed and Deb syncing

- molly guns

Trefoil:
Damage: 290/580
Speed: 600
Range: 550
Energy: 145
Refire: 4.00
dps: 1160/2320
eps: 580
Conclusion: 7.5% more damage, 8.5% less range. Rougly balanced, however, unlike the sunrail, it does have some advantages over the Kraken, namely that it does higher damage.

- corsair guns

Salamanca:
Damage: 265/530
Speed: 600
Range: 600
Energy: 113
refire: 4.00
dps: 1060/2120
eps: 452
Conclusion: 2% less damage. 23% less energy usage!? Now with this sort of imbalance, I'm going to quote you on the only other point of yours I haven't taken a look at yet:

- when you consider a gun - you also need to consider the ships that are most likely to use them

Corsairs: heavy, armoured ships lacking in agility. Bretonians: Heavy, armoured ships lacking in agility which look like fish. Note the lack of difference between the descriptions and the huge difference between the guns.

Kusari Lawfuls:

To keep this fair, I'm only going to use the stats of the 4.00 refire gun, since the refire rates factor in how the guns damage is balanced. I was unable to do this with the gaians since they only have one gun.
Disinfector:
Damage: 260/520
Speed: 600
Range: 550
Energy: 105
refire: 4.00
dps: 1040/2080
eps: 420.
Conclusion: 4% less damage, 8% less range, 28% less energy usage!? This is markedly better than the sunrail.

- gallic guns ( but only up to a limit, cause gallia is supposed to be unbalanced )

Not going to go into these due to the above phrase. If they're supposed to be unbalanced, then what's the point in trying to have a gun's stats balanced to keep it in line with them?

Right. Now that I've finished giving you stats and comparisons, let's move on to your points on how things are balanced, since you're obviously a member of the balance team:

don t compare those. - why?

- bretonia and ships with krakens hardly fight each other

One word: Lolcasts. The Bretonia-outcast non-aggression dealings aren't exactly common knowledge and every now and then we get outcast sabres with krakens (and in one rather funny case, salamancas) bombing around shooting people, and since Bretonia and the Outcasts are hostile on one anothers repsheets, that's within RP.

- when you consider a gun - you also need to consider the ships that are most likely to use them

Templar: Slow, unwieldy, big powercore.
Sabre: Fast, agile, smaller powercore.
(8% difference in powercore size)
The Sabre turns quickly and can keep a target in its sights, so it obviously needs the higher weapons speed to help it do so. Its powercore is 8% smaller and regenerates 9% slower so it obviously needs the 13% less energy requirement per shot so it can keep shooting for longer than the heavier Templar. Also, everyone knows that the sabre is horribly underpowered, so it needs the 3% extra damage to try to compensate for that. /sarcasm

- the kraken 2 probably is one of the best public guns in the entire mod - compard to the kraken... many guns fall short.

By public, I assume you mean "not nomad or phantom". Also, aren't the balance team supposed to make sure that weapons don't become this overpowered? If many guns are completely outstatted by the Kraken doesn't this mean that the kraken should lose some stats?

[Jinx]

the bergelmir being the standard rheinland bomber i guess. - compared to fighters - bombers have limited torp arcs, cause their torpedo arcs also function as a limitation to the supernova. - so many bombers do have a limited CD arc.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Jinx]

you will see that most bombers you just listed have their torps mounted upside - while the rh bomber and a few others have the torps mounted upside down. the hardpoint ( by default ) - or rather the turret allows a little more freedom upwards than downwards - cause the muzzle must not clip with the base of the turret.

in many cases - the ships are balanced with that in mind. one way or another at least.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Primitive]

I consider this a balance issue, Lane Hacker GS is weak, it should at least get bot/bat buff.

Per discussion of members who fly it.

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...c=92071&hl=

Is it planned ? If not, could it be implemented in .86 ?

[mjolnir]

Is it planned ? If not, could it be implemented in .86 ?

Yes some changes along that line were done for 4.86 some time ago, just waited to be released.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[weylin]

I had a few ideas for balance, but I know it will just get flamed and shot down since there should be no limit to the kind of idiotically powerful ships one should get with 5 billion credits....right?

I'll try to make it as short and to the point as possible to not bore you with too many details -



Scanners, Tractors requiring cargo space to equip. Better scanners would require more cargo.

The more sturdy the armor, and the more power generated, the less cargo a ship has.
-Low tier Light fighters would have the most cargo. Light-sparse superstructure, so more room for sensor equipment.
-Large fighters would be solid and tough and packed with the equipment for high demand weapons and cooling, but very little room left for a cargo hold, and thus, weak sensors.

Allow all class of fighters to use all class of weaponry - The limitation is still there that weapon power requirements of class 10s would drain a light fighter in 2 or 3 salvos.



Now look at the Patriot and the Liberator - How is one 10x times better in all respects balanced?
Why have multiple tiers of a single fighter class?
There needs to be a shortcoming somewhere... 1% less agility isn't enough.

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