How a player faction excludes a characteristic of the NPC faction

[lousal]

What would happen if a Zoner shot down a Samura Transport bound for Crete? Kusari would complain that the Zoners were shooting their transports supplying pirates? Oh how outstanding would that be to watch on the news board.

What message would that send to the other Houses? That Kusari is supporting Corsairs by defending transports that openly feed a group of pirates that constantly pillage and raid Bretonia and Rheinland.

No, I don't think Kusari would respond to Zoners shooting Samura transports bound for Crete at all. It would be far too detrimental to their status as a lawful house to openly support the supply of Corsairs.

Kusari would be more likely to distance themselves from Samura transports travelling to Crete.

In addition I believe that Zoner bases as distribution platforms and local resuppliers are much more interesting to companies like Samura than any powerful Pirate Empire. Samura would rather ask the Zoners if they can help to reach the Corsairs better, or ask for advice where to make the best profits in the Edge Worlds, because Zoners as neutral and civilian party with no intentions to amass power are more reliable concerning business than any pirate can be in the long run. Still, the issue would not occur if the setting would be played accordingly, because the Zoners would act as intermediaries for Samura and the Corsairs alike. Samura cannot afford to endanger their own public image.

[Not Espi]

hold up for a sec.

the food thing is sorted. let's say for now at least. no more hunger. that was a lot of years ago. but there are still resources the corsairs would need. fuel or deuterium for example. gold, hull pannels, stuff to make ships with. the corsairs are not saying they are independent of external resources, but food is not the main issue anymore.

putting this out there.

[casero]

What would happen if a Zoner shot down a Samura Transport bound for Crete? Kusari would complain that the Zoners were shooting their transports supplying pirates? Oh how outstanding would that be to watch on the news board.

What message would that send to the other Houses? That Kusari is supporting Corsairs by defending transports that openly feed a group of pirates that constantly pillage and raid Bretonia and Rheinland.

No, I don't think Kusari would respond to Zoners shooting Samura transports bound for Crete at all. It would be far too detrimental to their status as a lawful house to openly support the supply of Corsairs.

Kusari would be more likely to distance themselves from Samura transports travelling to Crete.

Feeding starved people is bad now? And how the other houses will feel? The same exact way they felt about SOB sitting next to planet Leeds and BAF having cups of tea with them?, although OCs weren't starving, or needing anything at all. Kusari is not supporting corsairs, they support their countrymen who were shot down unfairly by Zoners while they were providing humanitarian assistance. But I guess UNICEF is cruel for helping the harmed and homeless people as well (I'm not a fan of RL examples). Now, if Zoners want some humanitarian help as well, they just need to ask.

Samura is not providing guns, or anything like that, it's food, it's keep people alive, I'd like to see if %100 of crete's population is involved in the piracy. Now, if you see a Samura ship assisting the corsairs in battle (outside bretonia), then I'd consider that, supporting the corsairs. Or if samura moves light arms to Crete, that's supporting the warfare. Suddenly the zoners turned out to be terrorists? Because I dont' see another way to see someone shooting down humanitarian aid. But I get it! their business was broken, so they want to starve people to death and regain the upperhand? Truly lawful, talking about lawfulness... covering pirates with NFZ's, providing them with facilities where to rest, re-load their ships, etc etc etc. If you want to talk about lawfulness, I hope to see the Zoners shooting down some Outcasts in the taus, or closing their bays to factions like SCRA -(bandit) metagamed-, or hessians, or mollys, or Rogues, or... the list keeps up.
The houses will find lovely how Zoners help those pirate factions, not to mention the most big terrorist faction around... The Order, I think Liberty will looooooove to hear of that, or Bretonia, or Rheinland, or Kusari. Lawfulness... Food is humanitarian.

Corsairs are not allowed in kusari, they will never be, that's how much Kusari supports the corsairs.

[Dab]

hold up for a sec.

the food thing is sorted. let's say for now at least. no more hunger. that was a lot of years ago. but there are still resources the corsairs would need. fuel or deuterium for example. gold, hull pannels, stuff to make ships with. the corsairs are not saying they are independent of external resources, but food is not the main issue anymore.

putting this out there.

This is not something the Corsairs have roleplayed. They've come out and said "No more food problems, we rely on Zoners for nothing!" If it is true that you still require other goods, including Deuterium which you can only get from the Zoners, than the Corsairs need to actually roleplay that. At present, the Corsairs are roleplaying that they have no supply problems, no food problems, no war problems, no problems at all, and that is powerplaying and creating an unbalanced faction atmosphere, and it's a detriment to other people's gameplay and roleplay, and needs to stop.

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[Not Espi]

This is not something the Corsairs have roleplayed. They've come out and said "No more food problems, we rely on Zoners for nothing!" If it is true that you still require other goods, including Deuterium which you can only get from the Zoners, than the Corsairs need to actually roleplay that. At present, the Corsairs are roleplaying that they have no supply problems, no food problems, no war problems, no problems at all, and that is powerplaying and creating an unbalanced faction atmosphere, and it's a detriment to other people's gameplay and roleplay, and needs to stop.

if we were roleplaying no supply problems, we wouldnt roleplay pirates. pirating is not something the corsairs like (well, they might to an extent). they do it out of necessity.


ad: deuterium is rerouted to a corsair base everytime i see someone with it. i have screens to prove it, in case you dont believe (yes, i am that skeptical about people trusting other people's word here)

concerning other stuff i mentioned, there are regular shipments of superconductors, hull panels, gold, high temp alloy, etc heading through omega 3. npc trains. we intercept and take the stuff home. we are roleplaying it. peek in the sails message dump.

[Dab]

if we were roleplaying no supply problems, we wouldnt roleplay pirates. pirating is not something the corsairs like (well, they might to an extent). they do it out of necessity.

But where have you roleplayed this with the Zoners? I've seen no roleplay at all during this entire situation to show the Corsairs have any supply issues. I've seen the opposite.

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[Zelot]

I would like to point out, for all the people who want to misrepresent the issue, that the Corsairs are not RP they no longer have food problems, they are RPing getting food from a different source. Still not enough food on Crete, still have to ship it in, the difference is we have now changed suppliers with which comes a whole new set of vulnerabilities.

What I hear people saying here is that the Corsairs must be dependent on the Zoners, and that I dont agree with, that is what brought us to the current situation, with Zoners expecting a free pass, and the Corsairs not willing to give it anymore, because our RP have developed in a different direction. Had the Zoners wanted to make sure the Corsairs were still dependent on them, they should have shown some interest in moving food to the Corsairs in the last 2 years, shown some attempt at winning back the Corsairs favor, but they haven't. Basically what I hear in this thread is that the Zoners can do anything they want to the Corsairs because the Corsairs have to be dependent on food.... specifically from the Zoners, cant come from anywhere else or it breaks the game. Bull. No one is trying to remove the fatal flaw from the Corsairs, we have just been rping for a long time a different way to deal with that flaw.

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[DarthBindo]

I would like to add, that we still have freeport 5.
EDIT: and gran canaria too.
ANd i mean, where does the food on fp9 come from?
Either biodomes or the houses, or gran canaria.
THe biodomes are gone now.
And the other zoners might as well just route shipments through freeport 5.

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gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|

[lousal]

At present, the Corsairs are roleplaying that they have no supply problems, no food problems, no war problems, no problems at all, and that is powerplaying and creating an unbalanced faction atmosphere, and it's a detriment to other people's gameplay and roleplay, and needs to stop.

A good summary!

[Dab]

I would like to point out, for all the people who want to misrepresent the issue, that the Corsairs are not RP they no longer have food problems, they are RPing getting food from a different source. Still not enough food on Crete, still have to ship it in, the difference is we have now changed suppliers with which comes a whole new set of vulnerabilities.

What I hear people saying here is that the Corsairs must be dependent on the Zoners, and that I dont agree with, that is what brought us to the current situation, with Zoners expecting a free pass, and the Corsairs not willing to give it anymore, because our RP have developed in a different direction. Had the Zoners wanted to make sure the Corsairs were still dependent on them, they should have shown some interest in moving food to the Corsairs in the last 2 years, shown some attempt at winning back the Corsairs favor, but they haven't. Basically what I hear in this thread is that the Zoners can do anything they want to the Corsairs because the Corsairs have to be dependent on food.... specifically from the Zoners, cant come from anywhere else or it breaks the game. Bull. No one is trying to remove the fatal flaw from the Corsairs, we have just been rping for a long time a different way to deal with that flaw.

What people are trying to say is that you can't just run a few player transports from Samura and Hogosha and IND and say that completely replaces the food the Zoners were supplying to the Corsairs. Kusari has to feed its own citizens, and is in a large-scale war with Bretonia, where they have to send food and other goods to the front lines. Samura is heavily involved with that. They cannot route large quantities of Samura transports to Crete, as many are tied up in the war effort and continuing trade with the other houses. Samura has only so many ships.

Furthermore, such a large scale amount of goods being taken there would be noticed by the population who, regardless of it being food to a starving people, will not take kindly to it. Starving or not, they are Corsairs and considered thieves, pirates, and murderers by the vast majority of the population. Add on the Blood Dragons, GC, OC, and Hessians who would all attempt to stop Samura's goods to Corsairs with gusto, and you've got a major problem in supply lines. The Kusari supply lines are already barely working in the Taus due to the Bretonians, Blood Dragons, Outcasts, and Golden Chrysanthemums. This is part of the storyline and lore, and cannot be ignored. This is a weakness to Samura that people have ignored because it doesn't fit into their roleplay plan.

The Hogosha are a black market mafia.. They aren't a huge international trading company. They don't have the transport numbers or the quantity of food to sate the Corsair's needs. Not even close. A Mafia can't supply the food for a nation. Samura and Hogosha together would only be able to feed a portion of the population of Crete, not anywhere near the entire planet. So to say the Corsairs' need of Zoner foodstuffs no longer exists is to ignore the lore already established. You've tried to counter the weakness of one faction by ignoring the weaknesses to the other factions involved, which is the same as ignoring the weakness to begin with.

I'm hardly saying the Zoners can do whatever they want to the Corsairs. But the Corsairs can't do whatever they want to the Zoners either. Neither side can afford to go to war with the other. The Zoners are choosing their current path because the Corsairs are forcing them into it. There is no room being given for peace. The Corsair players have already decided 'we get Theta or we just continue this war'.

On top of the food problems, the Corsairs on Gran Canaria can be easily taken hostage by the Zoners, who own the planet. Sure, there are a large quantity of Corsair military ships there as well, but to attack the Zoners means forfeiting the Hostages. It also means the Zoners welcoming the SCRA, Hessians, and Mollies, who together, can push the Corsairs out of Omega-49 completely. The Hessians already hold half of Omega-47, and have close ties with the Mollies and SCRA. If the Zoners relinquish all limitations on shooting Corsairs on the planet and near the planet, the Hessians, SCRA, and Mollies will not pass up the opportunity. Don't forget there is also a Bretonian settlement there.

You're also poisening the Omega-3 Zoners against you, who could turn to the Bretonian Government and allow them to shoot you within FP1's NFZ in retaliation. This'll keep you confined to Cadiz in Omega-5. The Zoners could also allow the Hessians to use FP9 or FP5 as a staging base against Corsair supply lines, a staging base they didn't have before. Freeport 5 is located right on the Corsair path from Gamma to Omega-5. If the Hessians set up shop at FP5, your reinforcements to Omega-5 are cut off. Don't be surprised to see Bretonians and Mollys also supporting the Hessians, at least financially, if they do so. Cutting you off from Omega-5 helps all of them.

Not to mention the Outcast side of the issue. You're now fighting Omi-74 and FP9.. Who sit between you and Eta. With you preoccupied with FP9, this allows the OC to push you right out of Eta and start shooting you in Theta. And if you're shooting FP9, the Zoners wouldn't feel bad about allowing OC to stage there to shoot you. They'd be an added layer of defense for the station against a group already shooting it.

None of these problems has been addressed in-roleplay. They have been ignored.

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