Liberty Navy [LN] Feedback Thread

[Snoozzzer]

/signed by Congressman Ricky van Pelt / Snoozzzer

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[Ross Noyes]

/signed by Congressman Ross Noyes

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[NOVA-5]

/signed by Congressman Lucius.Vorenus

[Huhuh]

/signed by Congressman Isaac Stone.

While it's acceptable for Liberty to impose laws on its citizens, it is not acceptable for the Navy. Liberty is not under military dictatorship and I find it amusing that it chooses to spend its crying about small time crims when they have a war to fight. Leave this kind of thing to the LPI otherwise you're doing just as Hawk said, acting out of RP.

The Junkers are being bullied here, no doubt about it.

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[TFinnegan]

/signed by Congressman Tim Finnegan, et. al.

I would add that some semblance of respect would go a long way. Tossing insults at PLAYERS under the guise of roleplay is still tossing insults at players.
You'll note, that although many of us have some choice names for those perpetrating this verbal assault, we have not used them. And won't.

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[Jihadjoe]

Right... I'm going to ask a few questions here of Hawk. Nobody else, just Hawk.

First and foremost...

Do you feel the abuse was directed to you as a player? Now... I understand that the character Maximo Valeri is one who is not a nice guy. he's an arrogant tool and a man with a massive ego problem. This however is not reflected (in my opinion) by the player. Many of that player's characters are not of that vein, and to my mind, the terms used by the character have been entirely within roleplay for that individual.

Second.

Do you percieve the navy's actions towards the junkers to be a player led attack on another group of players?

My reasoning behind the idea of this peice of roleplay, whereby we lean on the junkers and apply pressure to prevent certain behaviour by the pirate and smuggler population of liberty (which we in roleplay perceive to be a threat to Liberty's security), to be a logical extension of the responsibilities the navy has to homeland security and not based in any player-oriented grudge. If you feel differently, please tell me why.

Personally, I find the overwhealming majority of you to be pleasent people and easy to work with. The lack of personal correspondance from you is mildly disturbing if you feel offended or slighted as players by our actions.

Simply put, you could have shot me a PM, or had a chat on skype and we could easily find some compromise. Instead you seem to have allowed a degree of anger to build up. My assumption regarding the anger that has been seen from the junkers was that it was understandable roleplay anger. This oorp frustration isn't a mutual thing. Infact I have seen several members of the liberty navy how you (in our skype chat) have been playing your roles extremely well, and rather nicely representing the fury the junkers would (in character) feel at having their quasi-legal operations threatened by the inceased pressure.

Finnigan. Please tell me by whom you feel personally slighted, and how exactly you feel the roleplay has been personally directed to you, the player.

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[Maximo Valeri]

The Junker Congress has become quite indignant with the attitudes coming from the players in the Liberty Navy. We have been verbally assaulted on multiple occasions now. I have been told this is acceptable because it was all done in RP. First off, the rules exist because certain language and behavior is inappropriate whether it is in RP or not. In fact, in reading the rules several times I cannot find where it is written that certain things normally not allowed are ok if done in the context of RP. Words matter. Whether they are spoken by real or imaginary people they matter.

Let me go right ahead and answer this one since I'm pretty certain it's directed at me.

My character, Maximo Valeri is supposed to be rude. He's supposed to act as a douchebag. And he's by all means supposed to come off as extremely pissed off.

Now before I even begin. I challenge you to find a single post made by Samuel Zanders, another character of mine, that has ever acted hostile towards the Junkers. This is the absolute best proof I got that I'm merely trying to act out my personality when I'm on Maximo. And you will notice a clear difference when I'm acting out as Samuel Zanders.

To be brutally honest, you completely fail to differentiate between a player and a character. It disgusts me how much you are trying to victimize yourself and pretend to be PERSONALLY offended by words such as "rat-ass", "Jackass Crow", "morons", "chicken cowards" and "A-holes." Now I can list down a number of reasons as to why I can act like I do, besides of course telling you that this character acts like this pretty much towards everyone, because it his Role-Play. It's not because I'm trying to hate you as a player.

But besides that, I would like to know who has ever told you that in a place such as Sirius, filled with conflict, wars and hatred, everyone are supposed to be best friends with each other and talk like we came from the 18th century of England? So I call you a coward. So I call you a moron. So what? Is it -this- big of a deal? Is this big of a deal that my character is rude that you have to assemble your whole faction to write /signed in order to create some kind of victimization momentum?

Geez. I didn't know we had so many, crying babies in Discovery. Yes, that, that one you can take from me as a player. Because that's exactly what you are acting like now, a crying baby.

But only that. Now let's recap for a moment before you tell us how much we abuse our position. Let us recap here for a second. For over years, have we the Liberty Navy dealt with people pirating, attacking, smuggling, and by gods even helping the damn Nomads inside Liberty. Right in front of our eyes, do they commit these constant RP-crimes, and when they run out of bots, or are about to die, or are being chased carrying a truckload of cardamine. Where do they go? They go to the almighty Rochester.

If you wanna go the Role-Play argument. That station. Would have been blown up, yeaaaaaaaaars ago. But instead of us FR5:ing your whole NPC Faction and sending capital war vessels in to deal with an obvious faction that helps our enemies constantly, we decided to give you an RP-chance to co-operate. So you could remove the docking rights of a minority of players, so that you can save your own skins.

It's called actions and consequences. It's called Role-Play.

It was your passiveness of letting criminals abuse your stations like they were some kind of immortal Freeports that lead to this decision of ours. I do not understand how this can be our fault in any way whatsoever.

You are in a situation exactly like the Hogosha. The diference is, the Hogosha are smart. They smile, nod and wave to the authorities. But when they leave their scanner ranges they go back to their dirty business.

What do you do? You begin arguing that The Joker, the most commonly seen law-killer in Liberty is being innocent. You want us to give you evidence. You don't see us coming to your Feedback thread yelling at you that you are trying to act in your character's best interest, do we? No, instead we try to handle the situation in RP.

I'm afraid, I cannot say the same thing to you. And the amount of times I have seen Junker representatives gone OORP in that thread.

Good day.

[Jihadjoe]

For now, I'm going to ask Valeri to stay out of this, so I can just finish up the conversation if possible.

The main question in my mind, is why I you didn't drop me a PM, or skype message saying "Hey Joe. This RP situation isn't working out for us. We need to change the way the two of us handle the situation. Can we work out something different?"

I'm all for compromise, but instead of that simple and easy personal interaction, I get rage.

This could have been dealt with long before you got angry, if only I was aware there was a problem.

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[Hawk]

I told my faction members not to make this thread an argument and I'm going to hold to what I told them. I'll answer the questions put to me and the rest can be done in private.

Joe first look at what followed. I think it's clear that is not RP it's directed at me, person to person. I do not care that his other characters do not act that one. The one was enough to offend several people. I think he just took your argument away from you. Does this make it more clear why we are offended?

As for personal communication I did that over two weeks ago. Many people have chosen to contact me personally when my faction steps out of line. I have tried to pass on that courtesy whenever I can. I never received so much as an acknowledgment of the PM I sent you. I assumed I was being blown off and left it at that.

Anyone who thinks I'm acting out of anger doesn't know me. I don't have a problem with the Navy's role play in general. We have been enjoying it. I think at times a few other people have been dragged into something they shouldn't have, but I'm learning as I go and coming up with ways to avoid that. For the most part we have enjoyed this.

My point was and still is this. There are ways to RP a nasty character without crossing the line. We believe the line was crossed. I'm sorry if anyone believes I should not have been offended but I was. I believe that is an inappropriate way to speak to people whether real or imaginary. Human dignity matters to me for many, many reasons. The responses of my faction show that I am not alone in this.

Edit: This is handling the situation before I get angry. I am not angry, I am disturbed and offended. My posting history speaks for itself in the last two years. I do not act out of anger in these matters. I have a history of defending the admins when people rage about unpopular things. I have even defended groups like the Phantoms when my own faction was raging about them. I want only a discussion here. This is not my first attempt to gain that. This is just the one that worked.

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[Jihadjoe]

Joe first look at what followed. I think it's clear that is not RP it's directed at me, person to person. I do not care that his other characters do not act that one. The one was enough to offend several people. I think he just took your argument away from you. Does this make it more clear why we are offended?

The character's actions are the character's actions. They do not reflect the player's attitude towards you personally. I fail to see what you're saying here.

Now... As to personal communication, I just checked through my PM inbox, which has every PM I've received (aside from a few regarding sanctions which I clear out regularly as there are thousands of them) since mid august.

I have one PM from you in there which I can quote if to you in PM if you see fit. That is all. I'm also unable to tell if the PM is in roleplay or not.

If you use skype, then feel free to add me.

jihadj0e

It seems fairly clear we need to have an in depth conversation regarding this.

I will also say that human dignity matters to me as well. However one of my characters has been called a rapist for months, and David Hale is offended and insulted at every turn by the entire pirate population of liberty and the entirity of rheinland. None of this affects me as a player and a human. Ever.

EDIT: Just found a PM from you regarding possibly reporting Valeri for forum violations, which I responded to by saying I saw it as an in-roleplay comment and one which makes sence for the character.

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