The "job" of the military

[Vogel]

All things considered, this falls into the roleplay dilemma of: there are more than 20 pilots in the military.

All things considered, it also falls into the roleplay dilemma of: the military is not the personal escort service of corporations.

All things considered, there really isn't any room to complain since the number of pirates involved shouldn't be that high "in reality", and that the military "in reality" has much bigger things to worry about. Like, I dunno, the threat of complete annihilation?

But people will do what they want to do and blame who they want to blame. Be it because they choose to look at it in terms of in-server results, or simply because scapegoats are fun.

[Vito]

A point that has not been raised before is one I can agree with the most: Gratitude.

So far all the RM has been getting from corporations is complaints, whining and a negative attitude sparked by false conclusions no matter how much we (I) tried to help. Perhaps instead of that, you could work out a form of at least seeming appreciation for what we (try to) do.

That is the military's job, to protect the House and it's assets. Think in RP for a sec. If the corporations go down, who will pay for all your ships and equipments? The corporations who ask you to '€œbaby-sit miner'€ also produce most of the goods in their respective House. No more miners => no more taxes to the government => no more ships for the military => the House fails. That is why you have to protect the corporations

As for the future, we'll just have to play and see what happens. At this point we do not demand anything from the RM or the RFP. You don'€™t want Hessians to get extra funds from us? Go out and do something. DHC will always choose the most profitable way out of a problem. This is all we care about, credits. We simply can'€™t afford to lose 5 miners and 2 tankers every day and, at this point in time, it'€™s cheaper to pay the Hessians. If things change we will reconsider our position

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[Wolfspirit]

I think there is only one consequence: Must be there often. I dont know or understand the problem parking some ship in Omega 7 or if that i sbetter on Ulm station next Omega 7 gate. Making an emergency chat and where miners can call back up and RMs can log close, not to Hamburg from where the travel time is too much. Call it whatever you want but no other key.

"Sadly RP speech dont stop gunfire."

Exactly. Guess RM's job protecting his civilians against inner or outer enemy like ALL Military in RL. Accomplish it in Omegas too. How you do it? I told you one way, what WRF use, you can figure out another. Whatever how, just do.

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[Ceoran]

Just out of curiosity: How much use is a Rheinland Cruiser with Solaris-turrets? Does it work? Because I don't expect those 200 millions to save you from the indy hessians if they are put on the RHA-bank:rolleyes:

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[Sturmwind]

That is the military's job, to protect the House and it's assets. Think in RP for a sec. If the corporations go down, who will pay for all your ships and equipments? The corporations who ask you to “baby-sit miner” also produce most of the goods in their respective House. No more miners => no more taxes to the government => no more ships for the military => the House fails. That is why you have to protect the corporations

As for the future, we'll just have to play and see what happens. At this point we do not demand anything from the RM or the RFP. You don’t want Hessians to get extra funds from us? Go out and do something. DHC will always choose the most profitable way out of a problem. This is all we care about, credits. We simply can’t afford to lose 5 miners and 2 tankers every day and, at this point in time, it’s cheaper to pay the Hessians. If things change we will reconsider our position

This is the third time I say: This thread is not about the treaty.

Now, as for the rest of your points: It is understandable that the corporation is greedy and is looking for the most profit achievable, there are however some aspects that you didn't consider, if we're discussing role play indeed.

Your primary contractor is Rheinland. Let's just observe the fact that as soon as the treaty is over, the Hessians will have 200 million credits of extra revenue at their disposal which they will definitely use against you or your contractors. Keeping the interest of those contractors, or the existence of those contractors at all, is just as much the corporation's priority as not losing profit. Not to mention the fact that if they find out about this deal, there will be consequences, consequences that are not at all profitable.

Then there's the fact that Rheinland is not actually gaining anything by supporting you, even if that is our job in canon. You on the other hand are making pure real profit out of your mining operations, which we protect out of our real money when the relationship between our establishments is funded on non-real, RP things.

We respect that, we do our best to serve your needs and even if we fail at it, you could have the courtesy of respecting our attempts as well.

Oh, by the way. You made a deal with the RHA; pirates, backstabbers, rogues and marauders. Don't come to me if you don't come off well from it.

Anyway, I won't respond to any more points concerning the treaty, nor proving people wrong who tell me that constant surveillance is the only solution when it's obvious that it won't work. If it would, we would have done it so far. Since we didn't, it means it can't work. Final word about that from my side.

[Wuselkobold]

Exactly. Guess RM's job protecting his civilians against inner or outer enemy like ALL Military in RL. Accomplish it in Omegas too. How you do it? I told you one way, what WRF use, you can figure out another. Whatever how, just do.

I don't know where you live, but where I'm coming from, the military is banned from doing anything withing our borders.
If the military interferes with internal matters, thats usually a strong indicator you are living in a dictatorship...

As for the "Omega-7 reaction squad" why not make Dauman fund them if you want it so bad? Setting up new ships is expensive and time consuming, and not everyone can or wants to put so much time and rescources into a faction if he can do with one ship as well.

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[Wolfspirit]

I don't know where you live, but where I'm coming from, the military is banned from doing anything withing our borders.
If the military interferes with internal matters, thats usually a strong indicator you are living in a dictatorship...

As for the "Omega-7 reaction squad" why not make Dauman fund them if you want it so bad? Setting up new ships is expensive and time consuming, and not everyone can or wants to put so much time and rescources into a faction if he can do with one ship as well.

I dont know where are you live but where I live the soldiers make oath and what I said is the part of their oath. I made it and I exactly remember it.

Daumann can fund this type of squad. Just myself invested about 4 billion into the 2nd WRF for common ship and those ships are ready.

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[hermit]

@Pharm: I agree with most of what you said and I already thought of making a separate border guard group for the RM, however it's just a concept so far which so far has more negative aspects than positive ones due to the split in activity and metagaming. Perhaps it could be arranged as a collaboration between the RM and the RFP.

A greater collaboration with the RFP could only produce good things in my eyes. A strategically placed tactical squad doesn't have to be metagamed, it could be, but would not have to be to be effective. I am not asking RM to make a pvp squad waiting to see when a target enters Omega 7 off the player list. What I was thinking more of is a few ships closer to server a specific purpose.

Example: Kruger Miners/Daumann Miners in trouble in Omega 7, they see an RM in Frankfurt ... they RP a transmission: "*Static* This is Kruger Miner John Doe, we are under attack and require assistance". Instead of traveling a couple systems they could log the tactical squad, or ask in skype is some others can log. I think it's completely within RP that the first Military Member contacted could radio for some help, if they wanted to.

Again, not saying that you should or have to make this squad, you asked for suggestions, and I had that one.

Though yet again, I have to say, from what I've seen personally, the RM is patrolling the Omegas (Omega-7 chiefly) a lot, I do it all the time and most of the time I'm down there, nothing happens. I do suspect however, that a lot of pirates decide not to attack if an RM is online in the Omegas (thanks to the player list), which is why there definitely is a demand for a constant surveillance as a deterrent.

Well I don't think either of us are lying, time zones screw a lot up, but there is nothing we can do about that. But I fear exactly the same thing, pretty sure some pirates, not all, use the player list more than one would like. Often in Omega 7 it is more than obvious. But that is why we enjoy the RM's presence, things tend to be safer. I am not asking for constant surveillance, but when Liberty invades, or someone asks about a raid there are many volunteers, does not seem as much with Omega 7. But I have seen RM patrols, I don't want to make it seem like I think they are non-existent.

A point that has not been raised before is one I can agree with the most: Gratitude.

So far all the RM has been getting from corporations is complaints, whining and a negative attitude sparked by false conclusions no matter how much we (I) tried to help. Perhaps instead of that, you could work out a form of at least seeming appreciation for what we (try to) do.

Well, this could and probably should be a two way street. I will concede that maybe Kruger should pay a little more gratitude towards the RM, do you have any ideas? Giving bonuses to individuals does not sit well with me, particular because I don't want to start that kind of relationship with RM and Kruger. Donating something to the RM as a whole, that is something that sits better with me. Possibly some more inRP support of RM, such as more H-Fuel Shipments? I would welcome any suggestions.

I don't know where you live, but where I'm coming from, the military is banned from doing anything within our borders.
If the military interferes with internal matters, thats usually a strong indicator you are living in a dictatorship...

As for the "Omega-7 reaction squad" why not make Dauman fund them if you want it so bad? Setting up new ships is expensive and time consuming, and not everyone can or wants to put so much time and rescources into a faction if he can do with one ship as well.

Even though this is turning into a Daumann/Military thing, Kruger is here, even though were used to being ignored now. *wink wink* Acknowledge us darnit! Earlier I said this:

To address the comments about the military not getting taxes from corporations, that is just something that comes along with playing a game ... as long as players are financing their Military characters with outside funds, assumed from other traders/miners, I don't see that as beeing a valid argument in any sense. My opinion again.

I now don't think I agree with that, I was not looking at it from the Military's view point, I understand that Miners make a lot of credits and expect you to protect them free of charge, I expressed earlier that I would welcome suggestions, but Kruger will not pay individual Military for taking care of pirates almost like a bounty system, I think it sets a bad precedent. But Kruger would be very open to bearing some of the financial burden of a squad like that, just have to ask.

[Jack_Henderson]

[color=#FFFFFF]The power of every military, in-game, is limited. Constant surveillance is impossible.

Yet, how can we express our support so everyone is happy and they feel supported by their military? Please, I'm all ears on ideas.

The assumption that there is not enough support comes from 2 sources:

1. There is often nomited/too late support (you named the reasons which can't be changed because they are reallife issues)

2. The "perceived" lack of support, against which something can be done.

What?

Make your presence seem bigger than it is by roleplay. You may be just 1 security vessel online but instead of sitting (Dublin now) on Essex and waiting for an emergency call, get active and fly to the fields, talk to the miners, ask them for reports on strange things... just: be present in the perception of the persons you want to protect.

Most often I'm alone in Dublin as an IMG Security ship. Still, if you sit in the mining areas with the people you want to service, if yiu ask them, play with them, make their stay fun and improve your fun, too... this will also result in the perception that you "do something" for them. Even if - in crude reality - it's nothing more effective than being on standby, logged in at the base waiting for an emergency call.

And by the way: everybody playing actively and not waiting for others to start and then react yourself would improve the roleplay in all sectors. =)

Andy

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[Talesin]

Greetings again!

@Talesin, make a military character and join a patrol. It's easy to make conclusions according to your personal fitting without actually observing the other side internally. I could recommend the same to everyone else.

No.
I won't make such a char, a lawfull gets too often into pvps, and i'm not that up to pvp.
Also i dislike being a turncoat, i won't play a Hessian on the one side and a RM on the other, like i won't fight a battle as hessian and join corsair side 5 minutes later.

About trying to discredit me like this - "It's easy to", "personal fitting", "without actually observing".

May i quote you yourself once again?

Yet, how can we express our support so everyone is happy and they feel supported by their military? Please, I'm all ears on ideas.

You asked for an idea, i gave you one based upon my experiences.
In return, you insult and discredit me.

What is this? You "personally attack" people that just offer help, and in the same post you remind other people of not doing this?

@Vito:
Personal attack and I'm going ballistic. Cool.

No madder how it was intended, i got this message like this and i am not up to alot of "you are wrong, you got me all wrong, whatever"- replies.


I thought you were asking for ideas and help, yet your response sounds as if you felt the urge to defend yourself.



Regards,
Talesin

P.S.

[...] the Hessians want to throw off the governament and they are fighting agaist every lawful faction in Rheinland

Nah we aren't fighting every lawfuls in Rheinland, just those Police-Guys and the Kruger/Daunmann/Republican - block.

We do even have rather good relations to the IMG and medicore to Bowex, IC and Junkers (which are rather semi-lawful though).


Regards,
Talesin