' Wrote:we ditched dem tizzies voluntarily and before .85-grade Q_Q even entered the dictionaries, Jo
.84 Q_Q went above and beyond it anyway. Glory days? Nah. We had LSF and Corsairs escorting police tagged (why were they -always- police tagged?) traders through blood dragon space.
In short though, to answer Mjolnir. We're using zoner guns in very limited numbers to hold the zoners to their stated diplomatic stance. It was not done as a cynical attempt at getting guns we want. Hell, if that was the case, I'm write some complete rubbish and go attempt to SRP krakens.
I could trawl up probably 10 or so pictures of different pirates with no link to the Zoners in any way, all using Zoner Gunboat turrets.
Perhaps for Joe, the reason was to prove a point.
For me, it was becoming repetitive and annoying to face the same things again and again, of which the Joker was only a part of that puzzle. All that we could do was to even the odds.
Quote:1.) Liberty just gave up any political leverage they had against the Zoners. Now if we ever try to bring up issues with them supplying pirates with weapons, they can just claim they give them to Liberty as well.
I knew this and we made a collective value judgement that this was a price we were willing to pay.
2.) Joe says this is to "test" the Zoners and see if they stick to neutrality. If they don't, it -might- be useful. If they do, it helps us not-at-all. I can guarantee, having been a Zoner heavily involved in politics, that they won't, as they are currently in a very favorable political situation. Now if the pirates or navy complain, all they have to do is say they are giving the weapons to both sides, and then neither side can do anything about it without giving up their own access.
3.) Eventually the LN will stop using the Zoner weapons because they are less useful. The pirates will continue using them. We will be back to the same situation we had before where pirates were using Zoner tech on lawfuls. Only now, there is nothing they can do to the Zoners to get them to stop giving those weapons to pirates.
These points are irrelevant, since we negotiated for the right to use the weapons rather than any agreement depending on their actual usage by the [LN].
4.) If the LN catch a Zoner delivering Furies to pirates, if they try to prevent him from doing so, they forfeit their own tech permissions. The Zoners can pull that tech away from the LN while keeping it for pirates, and not be breaking neutrality.
Irrelevant, and also highly unlikely as the only way Zoner guns get on pirate ships is if the ship wishing to buy them lands on that station. If for some reason this is not the case, the likelihood of being caught is slim, and even then, why would we sacrifice our tech permission on mere principle?
5.) This will create stress between other factions as well. Liberty Navy and Ageira/Detroit Munitions. Ageira designs the Vengeances and Magma Hammers and has a contract with the Navy to supply them. Part of the advertising for both companies (who are partners, one designs, the other builds) is that they are the sole providers of the Liberty Navy's weapons. [color=#FFFFFFF][Times change][/color] Now the Liberty Navy is using weapons from other sources. That destroys the company's advertisements and may lead to a loss of business. Afterall, if the Liberty Navy doesn't consider them the best, why should other Liberty organizations? Note: The Liberty Navy may still consider them the best, but the connotation of seeing LN with Zoner weapons is that they don't.[Codename/Bretonian weaponry?] This is what others will see. This will sour relations between the Liberty Navy and its arms providers.
Lets wait and see if this one materialises? Ageira are a player faction after all. I did notice your mention of detroit munitions, which is as far as I know primarily a producer of sidearms and civilian weaponry, and more importantly, that one of your characters owns inRP with financial backing from the IND.
6.) A lot of people see this as shady RP. Whether it is or not doesn't matter, people's perceptions of it is what matters. This opens the door for people to point at this and say "Look, the largest official faction did shady RP to get tech, so can we!" This will lead to more abuse of the tech system, which is already a rather large problem, as Mjolnir mentioned earlier.
I think the link at the top of my post may help to alleviate this. Of course, I can't force people to read it. Plus, pirates don't even need to RP to get these weapons, given their purple cell on the tech chart.
Mjolnir Wrote:Last time [LN] tried this with using Bretonian splitters it was forbidden by admins, does this mean that now we(community) don't care about RP that much any more?
Prohibited by Del who at the time had a Rogue LR- Sabre with Krakens.
Kudos for withdrawing from the FP4 last night. It is good to know that your faction would withdraw from PvP for the sake or the pure RP goal not to harm the people in the FP by accidental shots, since we got both sides equal numbers.
It shows wast improvement compared with the days when Sina and other [LN] camped the Unlawful bases.
According to zoner guns, furries do sucks compared with your guns, if you dont spam Gunboats with Zoner Turrets I see no problem into it. If you want to spam them however then you will make no difference between you and the ku expoder people. I also agree that tech chart is very restrictive according to the military factions compared with mercs for example but it is part of the Military factions RP, when you go to the army the state gives your equipment and you have no right to use other. On the other side you are compensated by having heavy capital ships,witch is no good compensation right now since the caps are a bit useless,I hope that in 4.86 it will be changed.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
' Wrote:Kudos for withdrawing from the FP4 last night. It is good to know that your faction would withdraw from PvP for the sake or the pure RP goal not to harm the people in the FP by accidental shots, since we got both sides equal numbers.
I'm not sure of the exact situation around that, but thank you for the praise none the less. I'll pass it on to the people who are present.
' Wrote:It shows wast improvement compared with the days when Sina and other [LN] camped the Unlawful bases.
That is a matter of opinion as to whether they actually did camp an unlawful base or not. I'm fairly certain they would say that they chased a pirate there - which is fine. What concerns me is the fact you felt the need to raise up Sina's name as some kind of demon-child.
' Wrote:According to zoner guns, furries do sucks compared with your guns, if you dont spam Gunboats with Zoner Turrets I see no problem into it. If you want to spam them however then you will make no difference between you and the ku expoder people.
I quite agree, which is one of the reason I am not going to be using Zoner GB turrets in a widespread fashion. We rarely fly our gunboats on the whole anyway, and the majority of us who do tend to use a pulse.razor loadout. I am likely to try a set of zoner guns in the near future, and I believe Dashiell may do the same, but it won't become widespread use.
' Wrote:I also agree that tech chart is very restrictive according to the military factions compared with mercs for example but it is part of the Military factions RP, when you go to the army the state gives your equipment and you have no right to use other. On the other side you are compensated by having heavy capital ships,witch is no good compensation right now since the caps are a bit useless,I hope that in 4.86 it will be changed.
The restrictive nature of the tech chart for military factions is no real issue. Most military groups should mainly use their own line of equipment and ships. That's something of a given, and I'm happy with that situation. However I won't let that prevent me from accepting offers of equipment exchanges, provided they are logical and roleplayed.
On the note of Heavy caps - They are useful if used correctly, and well co-ordinated. 4.86 won't change the fact that most people have no clue how to fly caps effectively and responsibly. That is down to the player.
McNeo Wrote:Irrelevant, and also highly unlikely as the only way Zoner guns get on pirate ships is if the ship wishing to buy them lands on that station. If for some reason this is not the case, the likelihood of being caught is slim, and even then, why would we sacrifice our tech permission on mere principle?
Precisely my point. You wouldn't sacrifice your tech permissions on mere principle. But to stop the Zoners from letting pirates use their guns, you would have to forfeit your tech permissions. As such, the tech permissions you just got were a curse.
McNeo Wrote:Lets wait and see if this one materialises? Ageira are a player faction after all. I did notice your mention of detroit munitions, which is as far as I know primarily a producer of sidearms and civilian weaponry, and more importantly, that one of your characters owns inRP with financial backing from the IND.
The fact that both you and Joe have tried to personally attack me and screamed bias to my post about an issue that, if we didn't RP an angry letter, would have zero impact on Detroit Munitions, seems a little unfair and childish to me. Especially when the very first line I got in response to my first (and politely toned) post was, and I quote, "go suck it" on Skype.
The constant insults and personal attacks I've received from my first and only LN feedback, despite my attempt to go through the matter reasonably and politely, has made me lose much of my respect for this faction's leadership. A leadership I once held a lot of respect for. That you disagree with my viewpoint on the matter is fine, I can deal with that, and didn't expect you to agree with me. All I wished was to state my opinion and get your opinion on the issues I raised. But instead, I got insults and accusations. I'm not personally attacking you, but I am giving you feedback on how you approach people. The reaction I got from this faction's leader to my feedback was worse than I have received from any other faction leader in over 5 years in this community. I was appalled when I looked at Skype and found that kind of response when I tried my best to not be another "feedback troll" that LN routinely suffers.
To answer your accusation then; Unless we do go through with any roleplay such as the letter idea we had concerning the LN's use of these guns and its affect on the company in-RP, this decision will have zero impact on Detroit Munitions. Nothing will actually change. However, I believe in being thorough in roleplay, and if I think my company would get antsy over the LN doing this, I feel it's roleplay I should consider doing, even if it's actually a detriment to the company in-RP. So no, this has nothing to do with my Detroit Munitions roleplay, and everything to do with the 6 points I had in my last post. If I were going to give negative feedback because some action harmed my company, I'd be giving Kusari negative feedback about the blockade, because that actually does have an impact. But I don't, because it's well RP'd and makes sense. I'm not going to waste time bashing a faction to get my way on an internet game. I play it for fun, I roleplay what I roleplay for fun and my own enjoyment.
As for why I mentioned that as a point in the first place, it was discussed in the Ageira chat. Again, as I said earlier, we do not know if either Ageira or Detroit Munitions will even go through with that RP, it was an idea simply. Also, it is a common misconception that Detroit Munitions does side arms and civilian weapons only. I can pass along infocards if you want, I've got all DM-related ones on a spreadsheet. DM partnered with Ageira, Ageira designs the Vengeance and Magma Hammers, then Detroit Munitions builds them. Then this is sold to the LN, DM using the partnership with Ageira to have access to that contract. Officially the Vengeance/Magma Hammer contract is between LN and Ageira, but DM is the actual builder and distributer. Again, I can send you these infocards if you wish.
McNeo Wrote:I think the link at the top of my post may help to alleviate this. Of course, I can't force people to read it. Plus, pirates don't even need to RP to get these weapons, given their purple cell on the tech chart.
As I said, even if there was RP and LN had reason, a lot of people will still see it as shady roleplay, especially the people who don't read faction feedback threads. If people were reasonable, this wouldn't be an issue. But unfortunately, many are not.
And yes, I am aware of the cell on the chart allowing pirates free reign of Zoner guns.. It's not something I agree with, as it forces it on Zoner politics and they have no way to stop it even if they wanted to. It's something I'd be interested in seeing changed to white.
However, my issue is with LN getting its own access to these weapons, as it seems (in my opinion) to be detrimental in the long-term.
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