The problem is whilst they are not Zoners, they are allied to Zoners and exercise some manner of control in Theta as if they were Zoner House Police.
Now, the true Zoners (see: TAZ) likely wouldn't put up with their shenanigans and would probably evict them for their decided lack of neutrality and lack of attempts to be neutral.
I don't have any problems with the AW faction apart from their being Zoners when it suits them, picking the best parts, to them, of what being a Zoner means and discarding the rest.
First, talk to anyone who has been here for over a year and you'll find we did NOT pull the 'friendliness to Outcasts' out of thin air. We've been friendly wth 101st (formally GoR) for OVER a year.
Now, your talking about IMG ships and AW using them. I take it this is you complaining like you did last night when you saw James in his Raven's Talon. Now, I wish you to go look and see which bases the Raven's Talon is sold on.
*SPOILERS*
Mito Shipyard 'Blood Dragon Guard'
Evora Shipyards 'The Order Guard'
Planet Gran Canaria 'Zoners'
Now, are ANY of those three IMG? No. Now, go look at the AW diplomacy. You'll see Bs| (The Order faction) as friendly, and NovaPG (Blood Dragon faction) also very friendly. And of course, Planet Gran Canaria which is Zoners. We are Zoner Guard basically. We'd have Zoner Guard tag, except that its nearly impossible to get. Now, ALL the AW Raven's Talons (which equals a grand total of two) were BOTH bought on Planet Gran Canaria. Thats perfectly within RP. Our shiplist allows any ships sold on Zoner bases.
And its true, we are not hostile to IMG or Corsairs. With Corsairs, I talked to TBH and we all agreed that Corsairs would NOT be hostile to AW, unless those independant Corsairs shoot us. Thats why we only shoot faction Corsairs, or ones that have engaged us in the past.
IMG has NEVER been hostile, and we are only at war with BSG because BSG has attacked us. We never provoked them or anything.
And about the Raid on Rheinland thing. Yes, we use that to justify the Rheinland ships we have. We DID occupy Rheinland for 2-3 weeks. Now, take a look at how many Rheinland ships we have. 2 Gunboats, 2 Bombers, and 1 Cruiser. Now, I can definitely see an entire invasion that lasted 3 weeks to be able to liberate a cruiser, 2 GBs, and 2 bombers. And thats where it has stopped. Ask anyone in the AW, and I've told them that NO Rheinland Bombers are allowed, only Korrd's and mine. And if that new Havoc or Outcast Bomber come out, at least mine will be replaced by one of those.
So besides the 5 Rheinland ships, 1 Liberty ship (read Ghosts of the Past) and 1 Kusari ship (Read Mayday in Tau-31) all AW ships are either Outcast, Zoner, Outcast's allies, or the Corsair Taiiden which is (or at least was) viewed as a civilian bomber for awhile. And again; Once one of those new bombers comes out, the AW treasury itself will be paying for all our Taiidens to be rebuilt as Havocs or Outcast Bombers.
About the Zoner ties. Read Ghosts of the Past definitely. It explains a lot about that subject. Also, we are Zoner GUARD. Meaning we defend them, but its public knowledge we are still a private military with our own goals. I'll be the first to admit that TAZ is more Zoner and has more right to be called the Zoner faction than we do. This is why AW has its own ID. Its to show that, while we are the Zoner's guardians, we are still our own private organization. Its sort of like Zoners paying us for the protection (their entire fleet consists of Eagles and a single Zoner Juggernaut) by providing their bases as a place to put our headquarters, while we defend them from people, and keep Theta peaceful, and not an Outcast-Corsair-Bounty Hunter battleground.
The attacks on SA/LSF: Now, HF has made MANY attacks. AW was present for two or three total. Two or Three. Also, the AW/HF alliance is one of the most active alliances. They are at war, we will attack their enemy. AW is at war, HF attacks our enemy. We have the most active alliance on the server, and we are going to help our allies as thats what AW has always done. If someone is our ally, we will help them with our full forces.
Now, you need to stop telling me how to run my own faction, when you have little knowledge about what has gone on. First; we aren't even hostile with SCRA. This just goes to show how little you know about the present situation. We've talked with SCRA. They will shoot us if and only if we are attacking Corsairs in Gamma. Elsewhere, they don't interfere. With TBH/OPG/LDDLG, its not hubris that has made this war continue. I offered a peace settlement, no one accepted. The settlement wasn't outragious either. BSG entered this war when the shot our allies first, then shot US before we ever got involved. It was unprovoked, so if you want that war to end, take your complaints to BSG, not AW.
And we will not end the war with SA under any present circumstances. We already had a war with them. At the end of that war, SA agreed with treaty to have a total of 3 battleships, no more. They now have 6 or so. Also, they were not to be attacking HF. Now, we didn't matter if they were shooting each other in Magellan/California, and we stayed out UNTIL SA/LSF attacked the HF HOME SYSTEM of Vespucci. SA was told not to unless they wanted AW getting involved, and they did it anyway. We also warned them after the last war that if they start another, we won't back off until they are destroyed and/or are no longer Liberty Navy.
And its obvious that you think we shouldn't be hostile to Phantoms either considering your last comments. I take it then that you have NO idea why we are hostile to them in the first place, so yet again. Don't speak of it unless you know the facts. There is a heavy RP reason for that hostility.
Find out ALL the facts before you start complaining about them. And I'm not too inclined to listen to a person who was Role-playing, tagged, and ID'd as a Zoner with a Rheinland Gunboat who shot AW just because OPG paid him to, then did it another 5 times. Your mad about being hostile to us now, no one to blaim but yourself.
I've answered all your questions, now go find something worthy of complaining about.
AW Is a Mercenary Army for Hire, it is not realistic for a group of mercenaries to establish an operating base. Look at real life, "mercenary" corporations just have an office in an existing building or city, not a military base with a full staff doing patrols.
The AW Name does not fit into Freelancer as a whole. It fits into this server simply because the clan plays here and RP's it. On other servers it's like "Ok, so we have a neutral mercenary army, that noone can hire? WTH?"
NPC's that represent a neutral mercenary army make no sense. Reason being is that what are they going to guard? Theres no point.
From a more OOC perspective, why give a faction an NPC faction just based on age of the faction? The problem is simply that they are not willing to pursue other RP options. Yes I understand that they have their RP.. but it is constantly evolving. Why not evolve it into something that will give them a bit more freedom instead of being so well tied into the zoners? Simply purchase safe haven on a Zoner base, like what's already been done with the system purchase. Theres no need for a mercenary faction to have a swarm of NPCs and an actual faction listing.
' Wrote:I hope they will not try to run FP9 and the rest of the Theta.
This has been addressed by Korrd and Dab time and time again. They do not run Theta.
However, the Zoners never had to worry about anyone until the Asgards waltzed in and set up shop. Now, attacks on zoner traders are quite common because of the Asgards. The Asgards are not Zoners, but not everyone knows that.
' Wrote:Also, we are Zoner GUARD. Meaning we defend them, but its public knowledge we are still a private military with our own goals.
Now you are zoners? Wow. That makes it even worse!
I did do my homework and your whole argument is riddled with contradiuctions. Stop making excuses while you are not so far behind.
See: Hubris, Ego, Unwillingness to say that you might have possibly been wrong on this particular issue.
Oh, and by the way, I only attacked a grand total of three times, and never randomly. This is not about me in any way. What do I have to be angry about. That my personal 3d model on a game server had gone through a destruction animation?
DO, go read our faction status post. You'll find something different than what you think.
Also, Blunt, we do act sort of like Zoner House Police. But only in the capacity of keeping people hostile to us away from us and from traders. And we don't act like Zoners just when it suits us. We haven't STARTED a war since the war between AW and SCRA, and that was provoked when you shot HF in Theta. Everything else started when people shot US first. Example; TBH, OPG, LDDLG, Benitez, BSG, LSF. SA went and attacked Vespucci which we warned them not to.
After Korrd has said that you aren't Zoners. This is what confuses everyone.
Saying 'we aren't Zoners, we just look after them' is cheap, in my opinion. The true Zoner faction don't appear to need nor want your help.
On the Corsairs, you are effectively hostile to all of them. You bombed a family villa. This is the kind of thing that Corsairs, a tight-knit if fractious group, would not put up with as a whole.
None of the AW's wars have been started to protect Zoners. This therefore brings conflict into Theta... which is against the interests of the Zoners.
I don't see the neutral Zoners putting up with this.
'Thanks, but no thanks. We don't need your help, take your conflict elsewhere.'
EDIT: Posted at same time.
Zoner Guard should not have Lane-Hacker aligned allies. We engaged with fighters in Theta... something the Zoners don't mind. See: Bounty Hunters.
Also, Zoners don't mind piracy. They still get their goods. The Corsairs that rob folk in Theta spend their ill-gotten gains on Zoner bases on food from biodomes. Therefore, you should not be stopping piracy, since the Zoners get their income regardless.
...I'm still staring at my "Hail Eris" finger.. waiting for the promised revelation.
Well.. still no revelation.
Dead as yesterday's hot dog. Meh.
Thanks for giving the TAZ "pride of place" when it comes to the Zoner philosophy, Dab.
And, as such, I regret to say that your contract to "protect" Zoners anywhere other than Omicron Theta is due to expire shortly. If you wish to renegotiate the contract terms, give me a jingle dingle.
"History is written by the winners."
"But history has a nasty habit of being in the past."
In your first post, you mentioned that you bought the ship because of where it was sold. Not on a hostile base. I can see that. But then you say that because your neutral to normal Corsairs (which your not, because every single one of them shoots AW) and then let your members buy Corsair weapons and Corsair sold ships on a base that should be hostile to you.
And as Blunt said, do you really think any Corsair worth his salt wouldnt try to kill you after you bomb a family villa? I think not. Like many things AW, your diplomacy is outdated. We set the diplomacy to you. You can't just say, after all you've done to the Corsairs, that you are still "Neutral". You have lane hacker allies, freindly to the Outcasts. The Corsairs simply wouldn't let that stand.
You say it like you offered a peace settlement openly, in a war that should not be happening. TBH represent the majority of Corsairs. You start a war with one of us, you start a war with the whole NPC faction too. You can't claim to be neutral to the Corsair NPC faction without proof that you can be trusted to land on any of our bases. The casual way in which you bombed a family villa shows that you are neither worthy of Corsair ships nor guns. Or even docking access for that matter.
Oh and by the way Dab, you better recheck that statement about TBH starting the war. an AW kusari destroyer parked itself outside Gamma a while ago, who said that he was paid to defend Sirred (who is thankfully long gone). Whats more, he refused to leave when TBH forces asked him to. That is an act of hostility.
I also reckon that they should have the same weapon and ship restrictions type as the SF do. Its a bit unfair for a private army aligned with the Zoners and Outcasts to by flying Corsair ships and Corsair weapons. Bit of clearing up would be appreciated.
Dab, I understand the RP behind AW, and I am a huge fan of it.
However I personally believe that policing Theta (preventing attacks, piracy etc) is against not only the Zoner RP, but against the RP you have listed.
Defending *zoner* ships is one thing.. stopping all combat is another.
Zoners don't care what happens out side their stations, it's part of what retains their neutrality. The only rule they have is "On our stations, you behave."
Like I said, just stick to defending Zoner ships, not their systems. That's the great thing about Zoners.. They don't claim the land.. Just the house they built on it.
People trying to raise their concerns, and very valid concerns, should just not waste their time to type them. Its beyond reason, AW is going to claim RP on all accounts of everything shady about the faction. We are just going to have to ride out their actions and deal with them. They wont change as long as they wont look at themselves with a critical eye. All attempts to constructively criticize are being treated as attacks and flames rather than people trying to help.
Its pointless, AW will not change via discussion. I mean come on, they are so far gone that they think independent corsairs are neutral? That is redundant in their own RP reasons for every war being discussed.
They goto war to "defend" their allies, but claim innocence in wars when other factions do the same in response.
As far as shooting the SA until they are destroyed, that sounds like trying to force them out of the server. Harassment anyone? Other factions show restraint in their use of power to make it FUN for the other side, try that now and again. You guys play to win, not to promote server RP. Just your own, and your own goals.
Quote:Find out ALL the facts before you start complaining about them. And I'm not too inclined to listen to a person who was Role-playing, tagged, and ID'd as a Zoner with a Rheinland Gunboat who shot AW just because OPG paid him to, then did it another 5 times. Your mad about being hostile to us now, no one to blaim but yourself.
Im sorry, I have to say just this. Zoner tag flying a rheinland gunboat with a merc ID and you are opposed to it? Your looking in the mirror mate...
*Wilson shows off his ham sandwich* - Armory.003
*mark placed on Unit-sk855's forehead* - Head hitting the desk as of reading the above
![[Image: sig-9566.jpg]](http://www.clintonio.com/sig-9566.jpg)
![[Image: DFinal.png]](http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b328/Luciaden/DFinal.png)
![[Image: malsig_alt1.png]](http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o108/Shamus_FL/malsig_alt1.png)
![[Image: warravenqu7.jpg]](http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1880/warravenqu7.jpg)