Use of Faction Right 5 should be eased

[Redirion]

RIGHT 5) Official factions may request that the reputation of a player's ship be changed to hostile with respect to their NPC faction.

RESPONSIBILITIES ASSOCIATED WITH RIGHT 5

Factions may only do this after they have interacted with the character in role play. Faction leaders should post reputation change requests in the Special Role Play section with a link to the forum evidence.

Example: The LPI could request that a smuggler be made hostile to them but only after conducting some sort of role play around this situation. A role play trial conducted on the forum with the evidence would be a good way to do this. Note that the reputation change may be temporary as the smuggler is free to buy a bribe to fix the reputation.

"Specieal Role Play" request, role play trial in forum...

This should be changed. There needs to be an unbureaucratic way to request/perform FR5.

Regarding the example: the most annoying smugglers try to avoid a RP interaction by quickdocking to sell their illegal goods and undock again to flee from the police. The usual warnings like "you will be added to a criminal database" and "you weren't allowed to dock" won't help much as nobody with exception of official faction members do care. In doubt they just change their name for 2million instead of paying the outstanding fines.

Another example can be found here: http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?...pic=120694
Do you believe the player of that ship cares? There are huge efforts required to put a FR5 in place and you don't know whether the affected player will even notice. You basically waste your time by rping with someone, that does not care to rp with you if not required to do so.

What should be enough for a FR5: a screenshot of the offense + chatlog. A trial is useless on these indies. Some don't even check the forums. But: if they are suddenly repped hostile towards the faction they offended, they actually do have to care and roleplay. This will also have a positive impact on faction activity, especially for police ones. Their reports will have an effect, thus making their RP worthwhile.

Put simple: Player actions should have consequences in the surrounding rp environment.
This will also improve the game experience.

Shooting a npc faction or ignoring the demands to drop cargo will also make them and their allies to go rage on you.

To the admins, I also have some questions:
1. How many FR5 are actually requested?
2. How difficult is it to adjust the reputation of a player? Is it possible to give every faction leader the possibility to FR5 other players on their own behalf? (do reduce administrative work). If this is not possible, provide a simple template for FR5 to quickly handle them.

[Fellow Hoodlum]

http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51206

Request template ... It gets used regularly by faction leaders.

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Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."

[Reverend Del]

It really isn't difficult for Admins to handle a rep change, except when it's faction wide and the faction is large.

However to give it to faction leaders would require FLHook commands. Which is simply not going to happen. Ever.

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Saint Del is considered a holy healer of diseases of children, but also as a protector of cattle.

[Echo 7-7]

It would be possible to give Faction Leaders FR5 powers. Somehow. (Edit: I stand corrected.)

However, it's not something the Admins want to do, because it really does open up a whole new can of worms. Mainly because of accusation of bias and malicious FR5'ing.

Edit: Which is something I would sincerely hope would not happen, given the significant responsibility placed in the hands of faction leaders. I trust they'd respect the privelege.

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There was a sig here, once.

[Altejago]

It really isn't difficult for Admins to handle a rep change, except when it's faction wide and the faction is large.

However to give it to faction leaders would require FLHook commands. Which is simply not going to happen. Ever.

Damnit

Could be useful though, if it was attainable.

[Stygian]

Darn. Can't find the other thread where this was brought up. But, anyways, faction leaders can't be trusted with a personal FR5 tool. Theres too much room for abuse. And it would be abused.

The current system works well enough.

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[McNeo]

It only works when the rep-changes are permanent, which they should be, if they've gone to the trouble to make faction command members take time out of their day to submit a viable request.

The only way to escape from a permanent rep-change is to remake the character manually, which is quite a long process and one that people may think a bit before doing. If they do do it, they earn their reprieve by putting in the effort, if they don't do it, they take the hostility of the faction permanently and it is reciprocated appropriately.

[Redirion]

McNeo, I believe that's how it works now and I don't like it this way. Permanent changes don't encourage RP in my eyes. Instead they could even lead to the OORP process of creating a new character..
A draconian punishment like this should only be used in rare circumstances and require the rp described with FR5.


It should be easier to set up (non permanent) rep changes to give an more immediate inrp sanction to a player that offended a faction.

The usual inrp faction reporting facilities should be sufficient to have a valid reason to FR5 someone. For example: If the RFP considers a report of an officer valid to add the offender to the criminal database, it should also be enough for a non permanent FR5.

I don't see how and why this could be abused.

[rwx]

First: The FR5-system is fine as it is.

The problem I think you refering to, is the no-real-consequences stuff.

This, in turn, is a problem between RP standpoints and lolwutery.

It's a problem of the rename-command.

On one hand, you can rename your character by ooRP reasons (see ship buying for example) and inRP reasons (you get caught but you managed to escape).

On the other hand, you can rename your character in a bad way ("They contacted me on forum, I fear consequences, let's rename and ignore RP", "I metagame and I see they don't like me").

So what you want, is a solution, the other person has no chance to do a good rename reason (as mentioned, he managed to escape e.g.), this would of course affect the lolwuts, but not the good players.

Now let's view this from another point of view:

You caught someone with contraband, he is a lolwut and ignores all your RP reasons to stop/not dock and he does ooRP docking (let's say at an allied base). You know, if you do forum paperwork, he would maybe simply rename, according to above.

So you fill a sanction report. The admins () will put him on a list (or what ever) to see if he would continue his behaviour. The admins are to busy to tell you. You feel ignored because there is no result in the sanction board. You want to harm the player, not the character.

Note: These are only possible point of views.

So now to your examples:

Regarding the BH-Zoner thread:

You've done, what you should do inRP. He got time to response, what he didn't. So a FR5 is fine.
He cannot dock with his character at your base.

Regarding the contraband example:

The smuggler will be killed by you, he dropped his stuff or he managed to escape. In all cases, you've to inform your superiors, because you as little officer, can't control the entire NPC faction.

What you maybe do, and what then results in either a FR5 or the above mentioned rename reasons.

What you could need prevent this, would be a temporary* docking denied command, also a temporary FR5 (docking denied + repchange) is possible.
But people tend to do failures, if you misinterpreted paragraph or simply missed a thread, you're the bad player.

*) does only count for an amount of time and rolls back after it.

But don't forget the lolwutery on your side.

So meh.
The FR5-system is fine as it is.

PS:

If the RFP considers a report of an officer valid to add the offender to the criminal database, it should also be enough for a non permanent FR5.

Just for the record: I consider almost evertime a report as valid inRP. But if you want to have a quicker result, you should join.:P
And it is a don't-enter-Rheinland-or-you-get-shoot-warning. If noone enforces it, I can't do anything. Make another report which shows him inside rheinland and I'm glad to fill a FR5.

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We make the rules, you follow them.

[McNeo]

McNeo, I believe that's how it works now and I don't like it this way. Permanent changes don't encourage RP in my eyes. Instead they could even lead to the OORP process of creating a new character..

As opposed to the OORP process of renaming your character?

If you were to argue that this isn't necessarily an OORP process, remember that the same can be argued about remaking a character.

Currently I think whether an FR5 is permanent or not is discretionary on the part of the admins.

Non-permanent FR5s make the entire system useless for enforcing any kind of law and order on individuals who aren't hostile by default to a faction trying to enforce said order.