On Q_Qing about cash and cap ships

[Diomedes]

Yes, implementation of any such system would be a headache to develop. With some thought, it might turn out well though.

One possibility is to create sort of a server capship registry, a voluntary thread where anyone who wants to apply for the "Expensive Ship Grant" can post information and the rp of their ship and crew (or provide links to it in a separate story thread if this is their thing).

A fairly rigid set of criteria would have to be used to evaluate each entry. Sort of a template really breaking down what calibre of post would achieve a certain level of credit. Each post is evaluated with this, and then the player is granted a certain amount of money towards the new ship based on the criteria and ship value. Finally, limit these grants to a certain number per player per time frame. Something fairly harsh like 1 every 3 months or so.

The idea here then is that people should not be submitting requests all the time, nor if they already have a billion dollar bank roll.

Main Problems:
Somebody taking the money and using it for completely different things. Might be hard to detect as well.
Who will do the work to parse the thread and give the handouts? This as always, is the big one.

So, more suggestions might be good. How can this actually work?

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[lw'nafh]

True, but what I said was there would be more lolwuts. Having to grind for several hours is a major deterrant for the average player.
I really like the idea of having some kind of price discount for good RP, but I don't see it being very practical.

They said that when they jacked the prices up the first time.

There's still more lolwuts.

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вellυм ѕe ιpѕυм aleт

[NonSequitor]

Mind you, these are my subjective opinions. Nonetheless, they may be more or less on the mark.
[quote name='Crackpunch' date='Mar 30 2011, 09:46 AM' post='1368375']

Why do people hate capital ships so much? It's just another type of ship to be flown./quote]

Here are a few reasons:

1. Caps are highly visible. Let's say player x owns both a VHF and a BS. Let's also assume he RPs equally poorly in both vessels. More often than not, he'll catch more flak in his BS, due to it's size, power and ZOI restrictions.

2. Many players, often of ages between 14 and 20, believe a cap owner is compensating for something. If someone is piloting a large cap, he obviously can't PvP himself out of a paper bag. If you're skillful at PvP, especially at snub PvP, it compensates for mediocre RP skills.

3. Many players, or at least the louder ones, fervently believe you have to "earn" a larger cap with stellar RP. So apparently there's a "fighter/bomber/freighter/transport" -level of RP and a "cruiser/BS" -level of RP. The only problem is, who gets to define what is "capship-worthy" RP?

4. Some players are jealous of those who have caps. Maybe they don't have enough time to save up for their own. Maybe they don't have the patience to endure the mind-numbing drudge work of trading and mining. But since they don't have a cap, they opt to ridicule those that have them = sour grapes syndrome.

I don't see the point in making them so expensive either.
"I wanna RP as *insert something needs a cap here*, but first I gotta RP as a miner for a few weeks (I say weeks because some of us don't have all day to spend on FL) to earn the cash I need." I think it sucks that people are forced to RP as something they may not like in order to fund their other characters. What does the server gain from powertraders and powerminers?

1. The high prices of larger capships help keep them exclusive and rare. But only in theory.

2. What does the server gain from power miners and traders? Targets for pirates and community derision. It's fun looking down on others, feeling smug and superior. And if you're an unlawful, you get the golden opportunity to "instruct" those silly lolwuts and make good money at the same time. It' a win-win situation.

If everyone had infinite cash (or near limitless so that there is still a little motivation to trade), all power miners and power traders would disappear. They'd already have the ships they wanted. With all of them gone, what's left? The people that actually enjoy Rping their trader/miner! Wouldn't that be great!? People that aren't just out for credits, but actually want to meet someone along the way. Facepalming at the "wut you want?" traders/miners would be a thing of the past.

1. Human behavior is an odd thing. Now, I say the following without a trace of sarcasm: There is a certain gratification to be had when you set a goal and work to achieve that goal, be it a vessel, an armor enhancement or the development of your character(s) in game. We need opposition and risk to make achieving that goal meaningful.

Now I see a lot of opposition to mining being profitable. Most of this opposition comes from the people that already have all the ships they want. Being selfish, they think "Well I've got my stuff, so I don't care what other people want." You notice how low the server population has been with mining nerfed? It's a ghost town. The amount of less-than-RP-capables on the server is about the same though; so that really did nothing other than scare off a few players.

1. You may have a point, unfortunately.

2. The mining nerf/adjustment was made to compel miners and haulers to work in teams, as well as increase the number of traders. Anyone who tells you different is either in denial or just being insincere.

Ranting about all this serves no purpose other than to let other people know my view. I do offer a solution however. Everyday, all players are given 2 million credits. Enough for those who don't wanna do any money making, but not enough that credits lose their value. Buffing credit making ventures allows those who want <strike>something big</strike> to RP something that unjustly costs a lot of money to do a lot less grinding.

1. A big "no" to server welfare. Not conducive to the game and probably a pain in the tuckus to implement. We need a steady flow of traders in order to have something for unlawfuls and lawfuls to do.

2. A moderate reduction (15-20%) of the cost of all ships and armor enhancments would be the way to go.


And now for some parting thoughts on the current state of Disco:

For a server claiming to be an RP server, I've witnessed a few things that have absolutely nothing to do with RP and everything to do with getting credits. The OP got me to thinking about these things once again, since the gist of Crackpunch's opinions involve the server economy.

Could someone tell me how the following things enhance, support and development an RP enviroment on the server?:

*ship and equipment auctions
*ship and equipment sales
*commissions for sigs and ship models
*codeweapon camping

I'm going to go out a limb and say that none of the mentioned things really have RP primarilly in mind but a lot to do with making good money without having to resort to the grind of trading/mining.

1. Ship and equipment sales are attractive due to dismal server resell prices.
2. Someone with talent can invest his/her time in modeling/signiture design instead of grinding with the rest of us slobs. Not terribly fair or RP.
3. There are people who roleplay arms merchants which is cool and acceptable. However, the way they obtain codeweapons is probably some the most OORP activity that goes on on this server. Camping wrecks and waiting for restarts does not make for riveting storytelling.

[MasterFletch]

For what it's worth, here is the perspective of someone new to Discover, and RP in general -

I don't see the big price tag on capital ships as a deterrent. I see the amount of time it takes to get in one as fitting my character's story.

I managed to get a hold of a Bactrian to pirate with, and have worked my way into a Roc. Now I am looking to get into an official faction, and when I do, I expect to start at the bottom in light fighters, most likely.

From there, my character will have to work hard to prove his worth and work his way up the ranks into larger ships. Larger ships, larger responsibilities, they should definitely require higher rank. I have ambitions to one day fly a cruiser, but I know this will take a lot of time to get to, and it would in a normal circumstance, anyways. Nobody starts out as an admiral in a battleship. They start out as the fresh lieutenant in his fighter, eager for battle.

Honestly, if I could have any ship I wanted, there wouldn't be any accomplishment to finally working my way up the ranks in a faction to be able to get that cap ship. I would just spend a day floating around to get my standing up, get my cap ship, and miss out on the whole story I am creating to get there from where I am now. Instead, every time I log on freelancer in my little Roc and try to fight a Navy gunboat, I have a new page in my character's role play history. It's real history made here in Discovery, and I think that is the kind of role play you guys want to happen.

So, please, make me work for my ships. Make me have to spend time to get anywhere. If I don't, my character won't have much of a story at all, other than some page I can make up about his mysterious past, instead of a real living history of interactions with the many people on this server.

-My 2 cents, feel free to throw it out

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I missed out on a good fight though
I was about to roleplay and join in
&quot;That's my friend you're shooting! I'm coming man!&quot;
as I was typing that, the other guy blew me up though :\
so it came out like...
&quot;That's my friewassdasdaadads&quot;
can't fly with chat open

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[Malenka]

If you want newbies to have capships faster.. You'd have 1000 LN dreads out of Houston saying "wear rm raid???", and 1000 RM turtles near Hamburg going "lez raid???!".

Is that the future of Disco? I think it's not, and shouldn't be.

And, if there were no traders/miners, corpo factions would die out, so would pirate factions, then will police factions. We'd be reduced to Militaries and the occasional Commies.

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Awesome sigz by Cabulb
[20:44] Avalanche (Greg/Pharos): Yeah, I ****ing know serbian.
[20:45] Domjan1911: YUGOSLAVIAN YUGOSLAVIAN!

[Huhuh]

For what it's worth, here is the perspective of someone new to Discover, and RP in general -

I don't see the big price tag on capital ships as a deterrent. I see the amount of time it takes to get in one as fitting my character's story.

I managed to get a hold of a Bactrian to pirate with, and have worked my way into a Roc. Now I am looking to get into an official faction, and when I do, I expect to start at the bottom in light fighters, most likely.

From there, my character will have to work hard to prove his worth and work his way up the ranks into larger ships. Larger ships, larger responsibilities, they should definitely require higher rank. I have ambitions to one day fly a cruiser, but I know this will take a lot of time to get to, and it would in a normal circumstance, anyways. Nobody starts out as an admiral in a battleship. They start out as the fresh lieutenant in his fighter, eager for battle.

Honestly, if I could have any ship I wanted, there wouldn't be any accomplishment to finally working my way up the ranks in a faction to be able to get that cap ship. I would just spend a day floating around to get my standing up, get my cap ship, and miss out on the whole story I am creating to get there from where I am now. Instead, every time I log on freelancer in my little Roc and try to fight a Navy gunboat, I have a new page in my character's role play history. It's real history made here in Discovery, and I think that is the kind of role play you guys want to happen.

So, please, make me work for my ships. Make me have to spend time to get anywhere. If I don't, my character won't have much of a story at all, other than some page I can make up about his mysterious past, instead of a real living history of interactions with the many people on this server.

-My 2 cents, feel free to throw it out

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not saying get rid of the rank up, get a new ship system in factions. I'm saying make ships cheaper so you don't have to spend time grinding to get them; time that could be spent on interesting RP.

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[MasterFletch]

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not saying get rid of the rank up, get a new ship system in factions. I'm saying make ships cheaper so you don't have to spend time grinding to get them; time that could be spent on interesting RP.

I think you missed my point that the grind is what forces me to interact with others and role play.

. I would just spend a day floating around to get my standing up, get my cap ship, and miss out on the whole story I am creating to get there from where I am now. Instead, every time I log on freelancer in my little Roc and try to fight a Navy gunboat, I have a new page in my character's role play history. It's real history made here in Discovery, and I think that is the kind of role play you guys want to happen.

My entire story on this server has developed out of me needing to go out when I log in to collect that 1-2 mil from an unlucky trader. The longer it takes me to earn better ships, the longer that role play path is. You are proposing to cut that short or even eliminate it altogether.

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I missed out on a good fight though
I was about to roleplay and join in
&quot;That's my friend you're shooting! I'm coming man!&quot;
as I was typing that, the other guy blew me up though :\
so it came out like...
&quot;That's my friewassdasdaadads&quot;
can't fly with chat open

Background || Feedback

[DarthBindo]

I think you missed my point that the grind is what forces me to interact with others and role play.
My entire story on this server has developed out of me needing to go out when I log in to collect that 1-2 mil from an unlucky trader. The longer it takes me to earn better ships, the longer that role play path is. You are proposing to cut that short or even eliminate it altogether.

Some people simply don't enjoy trader or miner RP.
It's their perogative, and what's he's saying is that we shouldn't punish them if they want a shiny cap.
I've spent countless hours on Disco, but beacuse i'm not such a big fan of trading, i've never had more than a hundred fourty million credits at once.
I only go on to trade so that i can set up a new character, but the prohibitive cost of a dread stops me from trying those.

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gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|

[Huhuh]

I think you missed my point that the grind is what forces me to interact with others and role play.

So if I'm not trading I'm not Rping? Are you implying that you grind for your cap and then spend all your time in conn with it?

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[kidd_meier]

So if I'm not trading I'm not Rping? Are you implying that you grind for your cap and then spend all your time in conn with it?

What he's implying, young man, is that should you desire something, you shall apply yourself to the task of acquiring it with alacrity and grit, or dissmiss your desire altogether.
Or simply speaking - you want a cap - you work for it, or go find another server, where it is easier to do so.
A month of regular trading - done smart - with the bare minimum of RP, will provide you with enough credits for at least three capships plus equipment. I understand that at 17 a month is a long stretch of time, but do please bear in mind that the people here are trying to create a reasonably logical and fun world, not one desined to be easy.

Basically - get a grip, stop complaning and get to work - it will work faster for you:)

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&quot;Come on, people. We have a job to do, so let's be about it&quot; - Lady Dame Steadholder Admiral Honor Alexander-Harrington, RMN
A weapon is a device for making your enemy change his mind. The mind is the only battlefield that matters. Everything else is just ... fuss.
Lieutenant Lord Miles Naismith Vorkosigan / Admiral Miles Naismith/
&quot;Always aim for the stars, boy. Even if you miss, you'll at least not end up shooting your leg&quot;
Ascribed to General Count Piotr Pier Vorkosigan

<span style="color:#FFFF33">&quot;I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.&quot;</span>
Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear.