Base balance and other such matters

[Berny]

Well, I'm the one to Benefit from Bases blocking Docking rights with shield up, but...


Base should be able to do "Forced shield deactivation" it's shields for like 5 seconds for friendly ships to dock. Makes sence, ye? To prevent spied/accidental destruction during furball - forced shield deactivation should be only possible if base hull is at 85%+ or something like that.

And about tickling station: ye, it's nonsense, that a single shot at allied base and it gets red&shielded. Basicaly - you're making defenses shoot you cause you accidentaly hit one debilator or flashpoint shot into it while defending it from real treath. Same for CDs.

And... best compromise between safety and usability as depot: Shields automaticaly deactivating after base hull reaches 95%, but not faster then 1 or x (admin specified) minutes after shield was activated. If repairs are off - then shields should be active for base administrator's specified amount of time or untill hostile player moves 10 or 15k away. Then shields don't get activated by any tickle it gets, even if it's Nova & makes it imposible to destroy a well suplied base without a proper blockade to dry it out.

About shield activation when repairs are Off: those should activate from any tickling and stay up for longer as it would normaly do if controlled using sense of logic.

And... Friendly fire should be tolerable. For shields - it should activate them no matter rep, but for hostality - uhm - it should ignore allied shots.

Infact, base should get "ignore" taglist or ID list, to make it possible to call indies/other factions to defend base without them being attacked by it for accidental hit.


About scripting:
if ((Baseunderattack) & (hullstatus<95))
{
activateshields(specifiedtime);
}
if ((shooter!=[allied or ignored]) & ([shooter isn't hostile]))
{
makebasehostile(shooter);
}
if ((hullstatus>95) & (shieldon) & (shieldontime > specifiedRepOn))
{
shieldon=false;
}
if ((shieldon) & (shieldontime > specifiedRepOff)
{
shieldon=false;
}
Simple, isn't it? Covers most of situations, makes base usable both as Laboratory and Cover.
And as for weapon platforms - those, that are made like right next to base should be invulnerable, as they can be reached by shield.
Maybe 400m? Why 400?

Seems shield has ~500m radius.

Now questions: does base get destroyed if it expands and there's it's own weapon platform on it's expansion way? Can weapon platforms be redeployed into a new position with timelimit? Similar to renameme - can't be abused, enables fixing of type error. Script part: roll back defense module to what it was before deploying weaponplatform


EDIT: sorry about going out with that. Seems repairs eat resourses 10 times faster, i mean 1 each second. So a attacked lvl1 base will need 36'000 robos/hull pabels/basics to survive. lvl 2 - twice as much. Only way to survive keeping shield suplied as crew and upgrading base then would be to get all storage modules on all slots and fill up with repairs, no shieldon was a BAD idea.... Guess i didn't figure how bases work yet... I would vote for possibility to ignore allied ship in hostality terms (base stays red even after relog if you hit it once by accident) and for ability to turn shields on and keep them on forever as long as there's fuel. And ye - docking with shields would be needed then as well. As Dock message during fight = death anyways.

[Trogdor]

How about we just leave shields the way they are?:P

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[Zahas]

Cannon are you sure that a lvl 1 base can resist ~60 hours?
I did a test and i see my base it's takeing damage around 3.600-5.000 per minute which it means around 25-37 hours?
old patch it was around ~2200 damage per minute

[alphadog]

Yes, I noticed an increase in damage-taking as well. It's going much faster then before... about 45% of a level 2 base in 12-13 hours...

[Berny]

How about we just leave shields the way they are?:P

Forget damage due to lack of repairs etc.

A well suplied base is now killable by syncing 2 BSs
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?...pic=123574

Here's some skype conversation to measure to lolWutin=sm allowed by Cannon's last update:

[05:24:00] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): hey guys, think about it
[05:24:04] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): not sure it's worth it
[05:24:27] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): 13th base got killed and while I don't like the 13th, I know that they had enough supplies to last days
[05:24:36] atlas.ml: It got killed??
[05:24:39] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): 3 days of mox for the shield
[05:24:47] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): 7 day sof supplies for the crew
[05:24:58] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): and a ****load of alloys
[05:25:17] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): so, if a few BS can just insta you before the shield can come on, that's pointless
[19:30:19] Mario: the bases are more then buggy.
[20:01:50] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): yeah
[20:02:24] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): I dun mind a money sink, but right now they're more like money and time toilets.
[20:02:43] Mario: the funny part is that they argue.. that is fine..
[20:03:54] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): we keel base lawl
no u! base bugged
we still keel u base lawl



Like Jeni said - money AND time toilets. 2 lolWuts can kill base within an hour - nothing to bore about, thinking a whole faction spent days gathering resources and building it...

If you made Bases into such a huge time and credit sinks, that only 1-3 bases per house can be actively suplied to grow with 2 or 3 factions actively supporting each of them - at least don't make them instable by two power-traders/power-missionlancers from pvpServer just for the lulz.

[Hielor]

A well suplied base is now killable by syncing 2 BSs
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?...pic=123574

Here's some skype conversation to measure to lolWutin=sm allowed by Cannon's last update:

[05:24:00] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): hey guys, think about it
[05:24:04] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): not sure it's worth it
[05:24:27] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): 13th base got killed and while I don't like the 13th, I know that they had enough supplies to last days
[05:24:36] atlas.ml: It got killed??
[05:24:39] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): 3 days of mox for the shield
[05:24:47] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): 7 day sof supplies for the crew
[05:24:58] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): and a ****load of alloys
[05:25:17] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): so, if a few BS can just insta you before the shield can come on, that's pointless
[19:30:19] Mario: the bases are more then buggy.
[20:01:50] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): yeah
[20:02:24] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): I dun mind a money sink, but right now they're more like money and time toilets.
[20:02:43] Mario: the funny part is that they argue.. that is fine..
[20:03:54] Jeni Walker (Tigger: Mollys, ALG, FP1): we keel base lawl
no u! base bugged
we still keel u base lawl
Like Jeni said - money AND time toilets. 2 lolWuts can kill base within an hour - nothing to bore about, thinking a whole faction spent days gathering resources and building it...

If you made Bases into such a huge time and credit sinks, that only 1-3 bases per house can be actively suplied to grow with 2 or 3 factions actively supporting each of them - at least don't make them instable by two power-traders/power-missionlancers from pvpServer just for the lulz.

The base in question was killed due to a bug with missiles. 2 BSes shouldn't be able to kill a base.

[Veygaar]

Sounds good at first, but not such a good idea. Someone could take a weapon with just under 200k damage, hit it, wait for the base to repair itself. Take another shot, wait for the base to repair itself, repeat. They could drain repair materials rapidly without engaging the shield.

Meh, then make it so if it takes 200k damage at all within one hour, it turns on.

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Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[Ursus]

At this point I'm pretty much convinced that it needs to be a two-stage thing that is almost identical to the way the ships are setup: first you deplete the shield, and then you deplete the hull. Hull cannot be touched until the shield is gone. Pulse weapons do more shield damage than hull and vice versa, so that multiple ship types are needed to bring it down in one (long) sitting.

The shield is powered by a generator that uses fuel. Attackers hit the shields and knock it down a bit with each hit. If the generator is running, and fuel is available, it restores a fixed amount of shield per cycle. Base owner can turn the generator off to preserve fuel. Size of shield and the regen rate depends on the generator type (same as transport shields). Once the shield is down, the hull is open to damage. Added bonus: solar panel module can regenerate a trivial amount of shield each cycle with no fuel.

Hull repairs... repair crew and supplies I suppose, maybe core size determines regeneration rate, or a specialized repair module. edit: additional hull plating as modules, like with armor upgrade

So this would mean it takes 2x longer than now to bring it down. If the attacker shows up with one ship that is only able to do shield or hull, it will take a lot longer. If they show up with 4 ships that do double damage to shields and hull it will go faster. If the defender is able to run the blockade and bring in fuel, they could extend the life of the shields (and thus the hull) for a little bit, multiple suppliers could stretch it out indefinitely.

edit: also need to calculate time-to-die based on possible damage. EG, heavy mortar does 500k damage, so how many million hull hit-points to make it survive 2 hours with default regen times?

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Discovery 24/7 Negotiating Tactics:

[Hidamari]

~all that stuff~

so a bunch of caps can just go and pulverize a base with no RP? why would you seriously support that.

if there is a chance to blow something up and totally ruin at least 1 persons day you can just guarantee that people will go to that length to pull it off, never mind totally ruining several tens of peoples day and not only that day but hollowing out all the weeks prior to that day spent on the upkeep.

there was absolutely nothing wrong with the way bases worked before this set of changes was introduced.

the only good thing I have seen from this update was the no base damage for 60h, meaning smaller groups get a chance to try bases out and do some things for themselves, which is good.

the rest is just trolls wet dream

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[Veygaar]

Make bases able to mount unlimited amounts of Armor upgrades;)

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Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!