Official faction activity

[Ingenious]

If the player finds himself forced by the faction to alter his roleplay, then he his not playing his role correctly. Official factions are not restrictive, they just enforce the roleplay of the NPC faction they represent.

The restrictions I am talking about are inRP restrictions, such as the Liberty Navy's ability to police Liberty space. I am not necessarily talking about OORP considerations like tech requests or FR5, but FR5 rides the line between RP and OORP.

Official factions can be very restrictive if you're talking about inRP, and the restrictions aren't necessarily on indies who use the NPC ID. For example, Liberty will halt and scan almost all traders. Rheinland won't even let you move codies through without a permit. Do these measures make sense if the official faction employing them is inactive?

So if a superhyperactive boss of superhyperactive faction tells you that faction RP is killing yourself using mines. It is ok?

No, it's not okay. Leave the faction and let it die, then have a reasonable leader create a new one and let that one become official. Currently, Mr. Superhyperactive just has to play 5 hours a month while multiboxing to keep his megalomania alive.

[Hexx]

We're not against change, we want it. That's why we are waiting for .86.

But some of us are certainly against this kind of change. I think even 100 hours are too much. At this level, it's not about activity anymore, it's about recruiting 20 random people and putting a tag before their ship name.

Not exactly. Case in point, when the admins instituted further restrictions to equipment use (long before a tech list), the players erupted in riots. They hated the change, and after around a week of constant debate, the SRP system was created.

Over two years later, SRP is dead, and factions now hold a tight noose around any even remotely unique equipment setups. I created a topic discussing a more relaxed system, allowing players more freedom when it comes to white cell technology. What happened?

90% of the community hated anything I had to say. I actually suggested more lenient policies, and they hated it. There was trolling, flaming, and general hardheadedness.

So when things got stricter? Changed? People hated it. I suggest things getting less strict? Change? People hated it.

So again, the community here hates change with a passion. Even Serp just said "all change is bad". Yikes.

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It's Hexx against the world.

Hexx won.

[Blodo]

300 hours is no longer proposed. Please read the discussion.

As pointed above, any increase from the 30 hours that is now will be a problem and will be detrimental as a whole to the server. So let me put it in other words: I disagree with the entire idea of it, even after you "liberalised" it.

Nobody's there to replace them if they die because of the 1-faction-per-ID rule and the no-unofficial-recruiting rule, not because of lack of interest.

This is a mod balance problem, not something that will change with an hours figure.

If they die, anyone can apply for their place... this was the whole point. If someone wanted to make a Molly faction right now, they could... and maybe they'd become official in about 3 months. But as much as I would love for the "no unofficial recruiting" rule to be lifted, it still won't help the 60% of NPC factions on the server that are simply not in the mainstream. Factions like the vast majority of corporations (Synth Foods being one of many examples), the many fringe pirate groups that suffer usually from ZoI overlap or a heavily constricted ZoI or a lack of "uber pwnage" ships for "extreme pvp", and then even some less active navy groups (GRN, KNF anyone?).

It's partially a mod balance problem, partially a lack of interest problem (you need to take into account the declining server population) and partially a rules problem as well (the long and drawn out faction creation process - which would be made much much worse by the "sudden death mode" you are proposing). But at the very least an established official faction can pull weight around the forum to generate visibility and activity in most cases. Forcing them out by overbearing stat requirements is not helping anyone.

A faction is not a labor gang. A faction should have enthusiastic members that join and participate willingly. If you make your faction attractive enough, people will aspire to follow the rules and be really good faction members. People will aspire to good roleplay. That is what it means to be a leader. I didn't force anyone into my faction and we are pretty active.

Yes but I imagine your faction doesn't produce 300 hours of activity monthly. Or even a 150. I can also imagine you would lose interest pretty quickly if you actually had to grind for hours rather than play the game. A faction is not a labour gang, but this is exactly what it will turn into if leaders need to "make the stats" like how you are proposing.

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Basically what is happening here is you are missing the point of progressive change. If anything the faction creation process should be made simpler. The 30 hour requirement should stay where it is. Unofficial factions should be allowed recruitment threads. Faction leaders of failing factions should be able to get help from the community and admins to gain new people. Maybe then you'll see further emergence of additional groups, rather than trying to force an official faction always and at all times. This is the internet, and you can't and won't force anything. The only way to make things work is to make them attractive. Grinding for stats however is not, and as such once again I fully disagree with your idea and hopefully it will never make it past the idea stage.

[Ingenious]

As pointed above, any increase from the 30 hours that is now will be a problem and will be detrimental as a whole to the server. So let me put it in other words: I disagree with the entire idea of it, even after you "liberalised" it.
If they die, anyone can apply for their place... this was the whole point. If someone wanted to make a Molly faction right now, they could... and maybe they'd become official in about 3 months. But as much as I would love for the "no unofficial recruiting" rule to be lifted, it still won't help the 60% of NPC factions on the server that are simply not in the mainstream. Factions like the vast majority of corporations (Synth Foods being one of many examples), the many fringe pirate groups that suffer usually from ZoI overlap or a heavily constricted ZoI or a lack of "uber pwnage" ships for "extreme pvp", and then even some less active navy groups (GRN, KNF anyone?).

It's partially a mod balance problem, partially a lack of interest problem (you need to take into account the declining server population) and partially a rules problem as well (the long and drawn out faction creation process - which would be made much much worse by the "sudden death mode" you are proposing). But at the very least an established official faction can pull weight around the forum to generate visibility and activity in most cases. Forcing them out by overbearing stat requirements is not helping anyone.

The civilian line kicks ass. Kingfisher, Falcon, Eagle, Roc, Havok, etc. all kick ass and can be used with codes and civilian weapons to extreme effect. The issue is a lack in creativity, server activity, and jump hole locations, to be honest.

Yes but I imagine your faction doesn't produce 300 hours of activity monthly. Or even a 150. I can also imagine you would lose interest pretty quickly if you actually had to grind for hours rather than play the game. A faction is not a labour gang, but this is exactly what it will turn into if leaders need to "make the stats" like how you are proposing.

We never grind, and we probably generate 100 hours a month at the present rate of activity. This isn't about us, though.

Edit: well, okay, scrapping can be a grind, but we chit chat in the process.

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Basically what is happening here is you are missing the point of progressive change. If anything the faction creation process should be made simpler. The 30 hour requirement should stay where it is. Unofficial factions should be allowed recruitment threads. Maybe then you'll see further emergence of additional groups, rather than trying to force an official faction always and at all times. This is the internet, and you can't and won't force anything. The only way to make things work is to make them attractive. Grinding for stats however is not, and as such once again I fully disagree with your idea and hopefully it will never make it past the idea stage.

I agree that faction creation should be simpler. The activity mark is a very simple heuristic for judging active or inactive. It's a lot better than subjective decisions by admins based solely on hearsay. The 30 hour rule isn't going anywhere. I just want to change the number to reflect faction influence proportionally, relative to other factions.

[Blodo]

The 30 hour rule should remain the 30 hour rule. Not the 50 hour rule, nor *insert amount of hours based on promince* hour rule. All my above arguments still apply, and I am still not convinced.

[Ingenious]

The 30 hour rule should remain the 30 hour rule. Not the 50 hour rule, nor *insert amount of hours based on promince* hour rule. All my above arguments still apply, and I am still not convinced.

The 30 number is in itself an "insert hours" figure. It is arbitrary. As some people have mentioned, trading factions have an issue maintaining it. I would like for there to be some rationality in the process.

[Orin]

I don't think 30 hours should go up either, to be honest. As it stands, I'd imagine the admins are already letting certain official factions off the hook for not hitting 30 hours every month.

I understand the desire to make things a bit more proportionate, seeing how much power official factions have nowadays for having such easy requirements, but I have to say that I don't think this is the solution.

[Athenian]

I'd imagine the admins are already letting certain official factions off the hook for not hitting 30 hours every month.

You have a vivid imagination. What makes you suggest such a thing?

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Former member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"
Discovery Community Forum Rules

[Alley]

I think you should be given leading of an official faction for let's say week so you realise what you're talking about.

You would have to try to find active people to do something in group but find out half of them dissapear or went doing something else, browse through the 10 technology requests of the week, check the FR5 requested by your faction and indies and look at each screenshot and have your own opinion on the matter then make a thread for each with proper formatting, uploaded pics and description. Then being insulted because one of your member did something apparently bad to another player (usually ganker ganked) and decides to put the whole faction in the same bucket so you waste one hour of your life talking through it. What next ? Oh yeah, faction relations. There's always at least one or two comm threads per week directed to the HC of an official faction. Now it's time to check the applications, verify who's active and who isn't, update the roster, correct the wiki and discuss suggestions for activity with your high command.

Oh wait, it's already bed time.

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Alley was right.

[Shagohad]

I think you should be given leading of an official faction for let's say week so you realise what you're talking about.

You would have to try to find active people to do something in group but find out half of them dissapear or went doing something else, browse through the 10 technology requests of the week, check the FR5 requested by your faction and indies and look at each screenshot and have your own opinion on the matter then make a thread for each with proper formatting, uploaded pics and description. Then being insulted because one of your member did something apparently bad to another player (usually ganker ganked) and decides to put the whole faction in the same bucket so you waste one hour of your life talking through it. What next ? Oh yeah, faction relations. There's always at least one or two comm threads per week directed to the HC of an official faction. Now it's time to check the applications, verify who's active and who isn't, update the roster, correct the wiki and discuss suggestions for activity with your high command.

Oh wait, it's already bed time.

And to think that I'm going to make another faction.

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"THE HULL HAS BEEN BREACHED AND THE SCIENCE IS LEAKING OUT!"