getting back on course or keeping it...

[Jinx]

along with yesterdays event of the choice of a new leading member of the disco community ( admin choice ) - came something that kind of disturbed me

it was not directly related to it - but influenced by this event... when a key member of the community in a skype channel mentioned that from his/her point of view "the official zoner factions ruined the faction"


this is probably the utmost serious crizisism one can do about the works of a faction - uttered by a key member of he community - it is something that MUST be addressed.


the following lines are taken out of the entire discussion ( too long to display ) - but they display how i perceived them:

[12:30:17 AM] : I think the zoner factions have screwed up the zoners.
[12:30:44 AM] : I annoyed that they took a fun faction to play and added a lot of politics.
[12:31:59 AM] : Actually there were many indies who just wanted to play the old fashioned non factionalised zoners.


i have deleted the name, cause it is of no concern here.



coming from a key member - that is such a serious comment that it needs to be clarified.


have the zoner factions screwed up? - maybe all 3 or some or only one zoner faction(s) have an idea of the roleplay that is so far off that the faction really got twisted... it is hard to spot such things as they come creepingly slowly into play and you wont notice it until its too late.



what i d like people to comment on is:

1) have zoner factions screwed up?

2) what EXACTLY have they done wrongly?

3) if so ... what should be done to better things?

( 4) how would a perfect inRP reaction would have looked like in last years events ( which is why we still argue about it ) ) <--- only if you do know the background



keep in mind that this is a serious discussion, ANY attempt of trolling or making fun of it shall be purged

---

Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Hone]

1: Yes

2: Tried to turn the zoners into freelancers - several different factions, when they are really ONE faction - shoot one zoner npc, ALL turn hostile to you. A pertinent quote I heard from a zoner official faction member is
"The main thing to remember about Zoners is there arnt any" - When saying how they were all different. You want to play that way, play as a freelancer.

3: Put all the zoner factions under one main zoner overfaction.

4: I dont understand the question.

---

User was banned for: Griefing others
Time left: (Permanent)

[Anonymous User]

Well... I saw that discussion yesterday and I say he overreacted.

Whoever wishes can play the superindividual zoner.

BUT

a bunch of individuals without politics and organisations wouldn't be like the zoners are now.

mean... no huuuuuge juggies... shipyards... research station in huuuuuuuge minefield.


if course there should be individial zoners.

but not only. If there wont be Zoner companies/organisations/groups/whatever we have to delete everything what's going further than vanilla zoner stuff.

bunch of individual zoners cannot build up nation/colonize a planet and build shipyard which are able to build capitals.

/edit: smartphone wannabe auto correction... grammar fixed lol

---

]

[Soban]

As a Zoner Indie, since I didn't join any zoner faction.

I find that the 3 current zoner factions follow the zoner will. We have 3 aspect in the 3 faction : Religion, commerce, technologie. ANd all maintain the basic Zoner policies.

Zoner are people who decided to live outside colonial control. And by that way they are many. Because each time a governement do something they will be people against and who will leave the system. And some of them become Zoner.

Also each zoner faction different, they follow there own way. Like a zoner. They have different home and different goal, Like all freeport in vanilla.


So to my mind The current Zoner Faction are fine. In vanilla it's written that Zoner have very good scientist. So they can build cap. The reason : need to explore deeper because of the colonist expansion. And have an answer to the PIRATE cap, because yes, in that way 'sair , outcast didn't have cap too in vanilla.

---

[Jinx]

it always is an option - if the community thinks that one faction has strived too far from its course - we can set it back.

a responsible thing to do is to review the faction - and if required.... apply game mechanics IF IT IS FOR THE GOOD of the community.

meaning - we can really delete zoner capital ships entirely ( remove them from the selling locations ) - and get back to vanilla ... nomadic zoners in fighters and dromedaries - along with such a change comes a MUCH lesser role in overall politics ( yes - it is mostly about what you have which makes you big or small )

question is ... would that be a beneficial change? - now is the chance - we are close to a new update release... if we miss it .... i daresay the chance to change things profoundly has passed - and IF 4.87 comes - it won t come for a few years.

---

Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Echo 7-7]

Comments withdrawn after having read the Book of Noted thread.

Will now go argue for Corporate Caps.

---

There was a sig here, once.

[stewcool]

I for one have altered my RP several times to best set myself as
a "perfect" zoner. Where using the Juggernaut as its main purpose
now. A mobile FP. It actually hides itself off plains most times.

I have had people tell me I RP it wrong when I believe Im actually
correct. I failed to see what chain reaction occured that made
the Zoners stand out so suddenly. I recall when it was just another
faction but lately there has been a large increase in Zoner ships,
warships and trade ships. Which most of which I've seen
are only in it for the default fact of RP with those ships. Zoner
Trade ships no problems in RP cause they just trade.
Warships however I've seen in countless places they shouldnt
or the RP is so incorrect that I thought mine was wrong.

To sum it up. The idea above that says all 3 should merge.
I think it should actually all be dropped down into TAZ.

It is after all the original faction and they seemed to get
it all down no problem. OSI are doing pretty good but merged
with TAZ and the 3rd which I cant recall they should work
together and "fix" the Zoners back to the exiled ways.


EDIT: As such I know its a drastic means. I am leaving the zoner
faction entirely pretty soon because of all the problems that
have arose. All my ships but 1 were in the faction and now Im
down to my Freeport which even now is about to be removed.
For a new RP which you and a few others only know of Jinx.
But that RP which no one knew about til now will somehow
connect to the Zoners. Because I love the faction for its first
principals.

---

[Dane Summers]

From my perspective as a Zoner Indie, the three factions of the Zoners are all here because of certain directions people wanted to take the Zoners - and in the case of the Omicroners, is the direct result of ingame consequences to some stupid political\player decisions.

The Zoner factions have gone to far, and come too far for that to be really changed. And, as a faction, i believe there was once a try to make Zoners allied under one banner, and it was sabotaged by inrp actions.

Making all Zoners TAZ is neither an idea i would relish, because the TAZ are a unique, very eccentric Zoner point of view - to have to choose between Indie or Crazy (sorry TAZ), is not a great choice.

I agree with Soban - each zoner faction represents an interesting development, down an paradigm path, religion, technology, commerce. Each one has a unique place within zoner society, as well as Sirius at large.

So yeah - i dont think the Zoner faction is ruined. I think it has evolved naturally under the cause and effect of ingame politics over the past few years, and presents an incredibly interesting three sided political structure.

Politics isnt bad, Politics is life.

---

[Hone]

Nothing wrong with having different areas of your faction, but also no reason they cant be united under one overfaction as was intended for npc factions. If the leaders are reasonable people, and if they arnt, they shouldnt be leaders.

It makes me laugh to see some people hostile against some zoner factions, but not other zoners, especially when the admins say there should be no difference due to tags, as with the liberty rogue sanctions. It just makes me think;
"You guys arnt playing zoners! Your making freelancer factions with caps, or trying to get your own ID" The indies are may not be better PLAYERS than you, but they are better ZONERS.

---

User was banned for: Griefing others
Time left: (Permanent)

[Arioch]

As a zoner indie, going to agree with Dane and Soban, and disagree with Hone. Here's why:

In regards Dane and Soban, as well as everyone else reading this. Zoners are a very unique and very obscure faction. Vanilla Zoner has very little in regards to their description, other than that they left house space to persue another life. I think that having the 3 factions, along with indies, is perfectly in line with the vanilla description, as it leaves much to the imagination. Let me pose this question: In RL, if you make choices, you cannot go back and change them. You are stuck with them, good or bad. In a MMO, there is no reset button, or loading another save. You are stuck with the choices. IMO, making changes to the current Zoner factions and/or what is available to Zoners is like saying "Nope, all the years of RP is void and we are changing Zoners". For one, I don't think it is fair to all those who did make choices inRP, good or bad, to all of a sudden deny them that experiance. Also, and a big point I want to make, is that I see this as writing history. Bear with me. In our RP dealings, day to day, we are creating history within the game. Our decisions are creating a story, creating history, creating the world we RP in. We are the present and future of Discovery, not the past. Just like in real life, we should deal with the consequences of our actions, whether good or bad, and move on. If changes need to be made, let them be made in RP and let it evolve naturally as it would inRL. I realize this is not RL, but a game... but, what is the point of RP? Acting out a character that you want, and developing that char. You don't or shouldn't have the option to go back and change your char, just as you can't go back in time to change YOU. I think you all see what I mean.

Now, Hone: I have to heavily disagree with you. 1st, Freelancers, while similar, operate within House space and are a wide range of people (Pirates, traders, mercs, etc). Zoners don't pirate, nor do the operate in House space. They got away from it... Small point I know, but still. I see a difference.

2nd,

A pertinent quote I heard from a zoner official faction member is
"The main thing to remember about Zoners is there arnt any"

This is one person's opinion, whether in RP or OORP... don't assume and apply it to all Zoners and how every person playing a zoner char feels.

3rd, when you say this:

It makes me laugh to see some people hostile against some zoner factions, but not other zoners, especially when the admins say there should be no difference due to tags, as with the liberty rogue sanctions. It just makes me think;
"You guys arnt playing zoners! Your making freelancer factions with caps, or trying to get your own ID" The indies are may not be better PLAYERS than you, but they are better ZONERS.

*I* laugh. Reason being, lets say you don't agree with the practice of a company, whether ingame or in RL. Just because you have a problem with that company, does it mean that you have a problem with the Country the company is from? No. You have a problem with them, not every one they associate with. Or, another example. Say you don't like a specific musical artist. Does that mean you don't like the genre as well? No. With Zoners, and the possibilities that faction, indi or not, represents, targeting one part and being ok/friendly with another is completely acceptable.

Lastly:

The indies are may not be better PLAYERS than you, but they are better ZONERS.

Again, I think you are completely wrong and ignorant. ZONERS are how they are, and what they need to be... You can't have freedom without protecting it (Omicroners). You can't support Freedom or enable those to escape House space without supplies (OSI), and you can't have Freedom of choice without a religeous aspect/radical thinking, if one so chooses (TAZ). Freelancers are professions... Zoners is a way of life. A Life that YOU choose.


Thanks for listening to me ramble:)

---