The Mollys + Post #109.

[Jack_Henderson]

Jack, first thing first, Cyril.O'Reily shooting at you and dying to IMG|Zeta was not a reason to put you to hostile. You are the one exaggerating in this case, since hostilities started a lot before. [M] can confirm this.

Full war was triggered by this incident or the talk that accompanied it. But not the IMG words (or not mine, at least).

Second thing, it was your own fault to insist on bringing MMC to those peace talks.

I am not responsible for MMC. If you want to critizise them, do so. It was not clever to have them in the talk, but who could have known that Quinn would say such things! =)

If you want to consult lore on this one, Hood is a completely free zone for everyone who wants to dock on it. It's like a Freeport.

I know. We had it that way until...

... Mollys routinely staged their attacks against BAF from Hood, caused IMG to be shot by BAF and (most importantly) I got sick and tired of getting threats over the forums all the time because Hood was harbouring X or Y or Z.
... Mollys shot the Admiral (which added the last straw).

That's why it is no Freeport. Perfectly ingame reasons. You can read it all in the comms channel because I made every amendment irply.

MMC were claiming they will cooperate with IMG no matter what happens. What's their point being in those peace talks then? They just provoked every single Molly in that situation.

I was surpirsed myself about the utterances. Not much more I can say. It's MMC that you want to talk to, I guess.

- Henderson called O'Reilys to talk with them, which they accepted. He was pissed off because we destroyed an IMG vessel, however, when we have given evidence about that vessel's behavior, Jack washed hands saying he's not responsible for non-core vessels. Why did we talk in the first place than, Jack? Are you responsible for them only when you need it, and when they claim you're sending the Reavers than they become 'indies'. In those talks IMG gunboat opened fire on Cyril.O'Reily because he opened fire on a Bowex.

Nah, don't portray me as inconclusive player. Of course there must be a difference between an action that a faction member does and one that an indie does. There was some communication error in the first incident, the picture I had in mind was different from the evidence. That happens all the time, if you try to assume what happened and you try to react ingamely.

And: We treated your attack on the Bowex as an attack on an indie. We didn't take it serious! If you had attacked anything that we cared about (and that we would not have ordered to move away 10 times), e.g. a Gateway, we would have scrapped you. All of us. Your killing that ship 500 m from Hood had no consequences.

- Soon after, some talks started on O'Reilys - IMG. We threatened each other, and after some harsh words - you Jack decided O'Reilys are hostile from that point on. I want to remind you that we did not destroy a single IMG vessel up to that point, and as I told you personally, we started destroying IMG only some 4 days ago.

We already talked about that. Your RP was convincing, you incorporated the "bad Molly". I like that role, as it was missing in the "tame Mollys". (no, I don't like "bad Mollys" as the mainstream official faction). I did not count your kills on IMG, I just realized the lots of blue messages and assumed you kill IMG, too. As our indies do not write MDs, that was just a normal assumption of what your rp told me to expect. =) And... I am sure you were not surpirsed that we regarded you as hostile.

- Some more forum RP and threatening.

Yeah, one small sentence. I wrote such a lot, it just was not answered/read. It was constructive stuff. But no. Not interesting.

BHG| undocked from Hood, engaged us, suffered, then docked back. This is important because you allow Mercenaries to base attacks on Mollys from Hood, yet you don't allow Mollys to dock on it. So, basically, friends can't dock, but neutrals can. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Doesn't make much sense. Hunters normally should not dock/undock there. They do. As Mollys dock there every day. And BMMers since the rephack is gone. I can't do anything and I started not to care a lot, as I have no means of controlling things.

I can put the hunters into the Revised Hood Protocol... it won't keep anybody from using Hood.

- IMG gunboats chasing me whole god damn day around Dublin (I would like to repeat myself here that we did not destroy a single IMG| vessel up to that point, and only destroyed the IMG indie I already mentioned in the start). IMG were claiming all the time that I am not so tough now as I am against Hegemons. When I asked which Hegemon I destroyed, I got nothing but silence.

That was likely because we had a lot of rp about your chars in IMG and you know how stories evolve. And you know your words made it very believeable that you eat miners for breakfast. Knowing you already killed one, was enough to believe it. And to hunt you.

- I destroyed IMG|Gamma-1, one of your Hegemons that was actually in Arranmore field, even if you claimed you stopped your operations in Arranmore field. So this is an interesting part. I also gave him an option to pay a fine and leave the field, he arrogantly responded he'll fulfill 1/2 of my request, and started cruise engines. Then he died.

Not really fair to use that against IMG fully as the ship was [R]-tagged, that means "recruit". Meaning: has done less than 3 missions for IMG on a shared ship. You hit an indie in the first incident and a Recruit in the second. Meh, bad luck. But the fact you never hit any (full) IMG| should prove we really stopped it. But you couldn't likely know about our new [R]-mission system.

- IMG brought a gunboat fleet to Arranmore field, in order to arrest me. There was some shooting, [M] didn't engage IMG, IMG didn't engage [M], I killed one IMG, Reaver killed one [M], Hone killed some AI's. Fun event, no big deal, except that it was a siege of Arranmore pretty much. I don't mind.
At this point we all insisted [M] should do something about it, and pick a side. Even you said so Jack, you told me you hoped they'd intervene.

*nods* I hoped they would be a moderating force, as in this situation the IMG was acting aggressively. If one side is aggressive in one scene (and you don't want it to escalate), the other needs to use their moderating influence. Thus interesting things can happen without massive damage. It did not. Which was a pity.

- Then this. Peace talks with MMC provoking every Molly with their ignorance towards any treaty that could benefit all Mollys.

Yeah, I was surprised a bit, too. As I wrote above, that is a thing the Molly players should clarify with MMC players.

Anyway, I wanted to point out that IMG behaved much more aggressively in this whole situation than even O'Reilys did. It was your faction, Jack, that actually broke the treaty.

That's not correct, imo. I was completely in the defensive position from the very beginning. And I consequently reacted to new developments (see message dump posts). The tone became harsher (the provocation was started by O'Reilys) and of course there needed to be an answer, so things became agressive - verbally for the most.

The treaty was already useless at that time. I don't know (and it doesn't matter) who broke it.

Ignoring the events and leaving an area because you don't want to handle the situation is wrong.

This here is the OORP mess. We "leave", as we take our active chars to another place.

IRPly (will be posted tomorrow), the mining vessels of the IMG relocate to a safer place.

This is not about ignoring a situation. It's about getting the soft and easy targets out of the way.

Why did I write "We leave"? Because if you only let fighting ships there, and there is no "pirate food", no pirates log, no fighters need to log, no one loggs. It's an empty system. That's why I said "we leave", because this is what - from an oorp point of view - happens if you relocate your active everyday ships to another place.

I understand you want as many neutral contracts as possible - for safer mining and exporting, but sometimes you have to deal with situations like this.

Not exactly correct. Having neutrals only can be nice, it can be terribly tiring, too. A bit of danger is nice, but whole hostile factions (that should never be hostile according to lore) are not. I am not in Dublin for keeping everyone neutral to keep my ore running without any disturbance. Mining is not that much fun... not if you have all the money you ever need.

It's the thrill and the challenge of "can I keep them neutral", and "what needs to be done to manage that".

And sure: I need to deal with these situations.

But just realise that withdrawing the mining vessels, taking Jack with the mining operations to Cardiff and leaving Hood behind, guarded by a Defence Wing and the Zephyr is not "ignoring". It's withdrawing. But not ignoring.

Especially because you were one of the lead roles in these events, along with O'Reilys. Quitting now just tells me things went unplanned for you, and so you refuse to deal with the situation.

I refuse to deal with something that is completely outside of how I see Dublin politics and IMG-Molly relations. We will not wage war against the main Molly faction (which is as close as you can get atm to "the Molly in general"). It's stupid, it's not IMG roleplay, it's not Molly roleplay (in my subjective view). The IMG Directors agreed on it: We won't take part in a war that is oorp as it makes no sense for us to participate as it would have never happened like that if there had not been mistakes (in my opinion [M] acting much too radical and following the O'Reilys into completely unnecessary and uncalled for violence, and then even a war).

Well guess what, I didn't plan on your 3 gunboats and 2 nyxes shooting me around Arranmore either. I had to dodge like crazy trough the mine field, and yet I didn't throw my hat and said 'This is unfair, I'm gonna move to Sigmas!'.

No *grins* You said: "I will report you to get your rep fixed", quite agressively/angrily/wound up at the beginning, I can still recall... *winks* That's not so much better. =)

I agree there shouldn't be a long term war, but a bit of hostilities have to happen in order to make a new treaty.

There will be no war with significant IMG in it. Give me a reason why we should fight all Mollys (because that is what [M] is). It's suicide to do that. We cannot win anything. So we withdraw.

And IMG| members wanted to keep their fighters in Dublin and fight Mollys... but we don't want to give Mollys targets and reasons to shoot IMG. We want things to cool down. So we are actively avoiding any confrontation, which is the thing that imo a Miners Guild would do when confronted with a terrorist faction that all of a sudden forgot where they come from, that they used to be friends, that they have been coexisting for decades, that they have solved much more difficult problems in the past without even making a fuss... now these new guys are all crazy. So we leave with what can be hit easily and do not provoke more damage with the fighting stuff.

So... a new treaty will not happen only after some war of [M] against IMG|. The fact that [M] declared war made it impossible for IMG to have these "small scale hostilities" (as in a war we need to evade, as we are no fighting faction)

There is nothing wrong going on here.

There ism imo. If you ignore the generally non-hostile stance of IMG-Molly and what happened during the last months of ingame interaction, you are making mistakes. Roleplay needs a foundation that is agreed on (at least vaguely) by all participants. Dropping the IMG-Molly non-hostile relations as [M] Mollys did, is in my opionion a mistake. It's no prob to be the "pickaxe in your head" Molly in space. But the faction should not declare war like this imo.

And in Dublin, Mollys are the bosses. Not you Jack.

I never claimed Jack is. But do ot expect that IMG| just cedes all power that it doubtlessly had during the Mollys were weaker to an irply extremely new upcoming group of Mollys. Of course Jack and IMG had to try to oppose their claims. (btw it's part of each claim that the other side doesn't accept and thus create interaction).

Please allow Mollys to become what they should become, a criminal organisation that wants to fight Queen's power. This might be a first step towards realizing just how tough they are.

I know Mollys are tough. And I like Mollys that have teeth. But I also want and need Mollys to realize that they are not almighty. That they are isolated. That they need friends, especially in Dublin. That they can't support parts of their economy without help. They are a small group, fighting a house, cut off from every market.

Ignoring the IMG (as [M] cleaimed in a post above) and claiming to have moved on from the lore so that no ties between IMG and MOllys are necessary is not acceptable to me. It's a much more radical change than e.g. having no Molly ore runners (as they can't dock at the selling point) or not having Hood as a complete Freeport after some political problems.

I can accept Molly's strength.
But Mollys also have to accept their weaknesses.

And by a mix of strengths and weaknesses, cooperation starts. Interaction starts. Cool roleplay is created.

Not by claiming that one is superior, doesn't need the other one and showing a striking lack of knowledge (e.g. "you are foreigners, you do not belong here") at the same time.

And don't get me wrong, I put that order of events just to show you're equally to blame as me. I enjoyed every one of those, and I thought it was enjoyable for you too.

As I said, I like the role O'Reilys play, and I enjoyed the scenes =) . I don't like how [M] reacted... the complete Molly faction, THE Molly can't be willing to throw away all the good things that happened between IMG and Molly. That won't happen in reality. Never for the reasons that came up ingame.

O'Reilys can ignore the ties, they are 2 guys without relevant influence on a larger scale. A faction that wants to become official cannot ignore the regular relations, historical connections, past roleplay. Just my view, though.

However, ragequitting like this was not something I expected from a great official faction. Please deal with it in game.

I will call you when I ragequit and give you a log. =) This is not a ragequit.

Would you leave the Taus if Kusari announced hostilities to you? I don't think so.

The miners would leave. That's what happened inrply up to now.


And now I go to bed. =)

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