The DaemonS and The Seraphim

[Thyrzul]

So...any ship strong enough to effectively fight back against a Navy "Upholder"...?
Thats oppression...
Wait...this is LIBERTY...what do you expect.

Majority of the Bretonian shipline is strong enough to effectively fight back against a Navy Upholder. Bretonian ships are not forbidden to be flown in Liberty space. Your arguement is invalid. Try applying your logic less on your personal feelings and more on actual facts and you may sound less stupid in the future.

1, How can you go check the rules, if you dont know there are any?
(Excepting, of course, the ones that pop up in-game about PvP encounters)

Basic logic: Most of us live in a civilized society, assuming you do as well, given that you can use computers, can write on this forum, etc. There are always rules in every community to ensure civilized existence and a moderate-to-high degree of order. It should be a default to look for them.

2, Why are the rules not presented to the player BEFORE he/she joins the server, or after...?
(The rules should be presented in the same way taht rules are presented on other media. A warning, a note, whatever. It could even be something that your ship STARTS with, like the "welcome to Discovery" thing, calling it SERVER RULES might be a good idea.)

1.) URL link to the forums is presented in the server description you can see at the bottom when selecting the server. From there, if you follow basic logic I explained above, it shouldn't be too hard/shouldn't take too long to find rules.

2.) As others already pointed out, one of the starting commodities contains the rules. If you look for rules, you find rules.

3.) You can visit the forums any time you want for some guidance, especially if you are actually looking for the rules.

3, Going on the basis that the player doesnt know the rules, or even knows that they exist, why would that player believe ANYTHING that was told to them in-game?
(Anyone who flies up and says "oh, this is against the rules, blah blah blah, leave Liberty Space or be destroyed" could actually be LYING, and just trying to be a complete git. There are people like that in EVERY game, hassling the new players.)

Despite detailing in my previous responses why we shouldn't "go on the basis that the player doesn't know the rules, or even knows that they exist", let's just do that for now. It is highly advised to believe anybody with an [Admin] or [Angel] name tag in cases like this. Should somebody else try to help you and you don't believe them, you can easily check the rules yourself on the forums.

It is important to know the differences between rules and laws, as has been pointed out before me already. Rules are ooRP, laws are inRP, and can be found at different places of the forum.

4, If all the above is true, which it is, How can I be expected to follow rules that I dont know about, previously check rules that I dont know about, and adhere to rules that I dont know about...and even BREAK them, without even knowing about them?

Not knowing about is just a minor mistake, which you can easily fix, by looking for them. Not even looking for any rules is a way bigger mistake. Besides, everybody can say they didn't know about, so what? "I didn't know I shouldn't pass the red light, no matter two people died because of me, how can you hold me accountable for breaking regulations I did not know about?" Heh, nope, that's not how things work here, nor does in real life.

5, Therefore: by doing all that I did, I broke several rules... ...without prior knowledge of them.
Since you cannot actually BREAK a rule if you dont know that there is a rule. I, therefore, broke no rules.

Wrong logic. People has been affected by gravity for millenia before Newton pointing out that there is some weird magic binding us to Earth. Things having an effect/being applied on you does not correlate with your knowledge about them. Where do you live that you still believe in this way of thinking? Or rather, how old are you?

The correct thing to do at THAT point is:
1, Direct the player to go look at the rules, and tell them where to look.
2, Give said player the benefit of the doubt.
3, Make sure that, upon learning the rules, said player doesnt break them again.

1.) You have had that commodity in your cargo hold when you made your first ship on the server. Why didn't you read it?
2.) Benefit of the doubt are usually given to players who are more keen to accept and correct their mistakes, as would be expected from responsible people, than try to save their backsides with a wall of text of failed logic, like a child, even after being proven to be wrong. I think you would get that too, should you put more effort into, idunno, like reading the rules maybe?
3.) Go read the rules now. And don't ever break them again. Am I doing this right?

Removing all ways of continuing, AND initiating a 7 day ban, for a player who has no knowledge of any rules...
Now thats BAD. It will make the player not WANT to play, and certainly not WANT to follow any rules.
It may also cause several OTHER players to not want to play anymore, and could reduce the number of new players.

I'd assume that if somebody experiences the consequences, in this case the quite negative effects of not knowing the rules, the first thing they gonna do is to get to know the rules, so that they won't experience the same thing again. But maybe it is just me expecting too much from people.

You took the only weapons I had, and I hadnt got much money. So I couldnt do missions to earn cash, and I couldnt trade for the reasons of: not having any way to defend from attack while trading, and not having enough cash to purchase commodities.

Don't do missions, worst way of earning money. Mine Helium in Pennsy, main income for starters, grind with the starter freighter for a short while. Mining is the most profitable, though boring a bit for me. If for you too, trade, download FLStat, FLCompanion, plan your trade routes, grind for cash to buy bigger transports, Camara, Percheron, Serenity, Bison, by the time you get to the Mastodon, you'll earn $200,000s in minutes. And if the cash from a starting ship doesn't help you to get started, make connections. This is a multiplayer game after all...

Now, going by the fact that I didnt know the rules...I think THAT was enough of a punishment, dont you?
Even if I KNEW the rules...doing THAT would already screw me enough to say "hmm, might not break a rule again"

Well, wasn't this the point of the sanction? Make you not to break rules?

The 7 day ban was unnecessary, over the top, out of RP, and honestly very silly!
Also, taking the player from where he was, to a VERY hostile station, in the middle of a cargo run is ALSO very out of RP.

Yeah, the difference between rules and laws. Rules (and the sanctions for breaking them) are ooRP, laws are inRP. Afaik we discussed this already.

You cost me over $200,000 of trading profit...and I'm now stuck somewhere that I cant leave.

Make a starter ship, make connections, make money just how I described above. Poke me if you need help with FLStat and FLC and with trade routes in general, poke somebody else if you need help with mining, because I'm not a mining expert.

You cant expect others to follow RP rules if you are able to pluck ships at will and dump them somewhere.
If WE have to follow RP rules...so do you...admin or not!!!

Yeah, Server rules are ooRP. House and other faction laws are inRP. You know the drill...

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