Salvager and Raba regen counts: too high?

[Lythrilux]

The Salvager/Raba is a rare choice to forego 40% cargo capacity, and to have no choice but a Junker alignment, in exchange for a hardened fireboat.

You see, this is one of the key reason why I don't think Junkers really need such a hardened ship at all. Well, I do like the ship itself and its design, but when you look at Junker diplomacy you're found scratching your head as to why Junkers need such a powerful ship in the first place.
Scrap Zoners.
Junker diplomacy itself is a useful tool for worming out of bad situations, and calling for help when needed. There's be loads of time when I've gotten out of piracy encounters just by threatening with an FR5

You kill regens you dampen the purpose of the ship, instead of accentuating the weaknesses. Statistics aside--as it's supposed to be a unique ship anyways--i'm pointing out that if you aren't creative about solving the problem it will just become another carbon copy heavy transport.

So what? Are you implying the salvager is meant to be some sort of glorified repair ship?
I'd chuckle at your statement regarding the salvager becoming useless without such a high amount of regens. I find the Salvager to be a useful miner, or as support in piracy. Trading would still be the same as it is now, minus the fact that you're not near-invincible unlike before.

Regen nerf is lazy imo. It's a "Frigate". Make it the heaviest, hardiest, rock-like rock-mining vessel around. Killing the CM was an ambitious idea, perhaps another way to limit versatility? i would rather see unique concepts presented then a normalcy-nerf.

As long as it can virtually travel in a straight line from x to y and repair all it's damage thanks to regens within 20k or so, then all other nerfs are pointless and will not address the issue. In fact, removing the CM or altering it's other stats just makes it more pointless for other ventures, such as piracy.

Traders can trade alone. Why can't pirates pirate alone?

They cannot. Traders can only trade alone if there is no one to stop them. The moment a transport, for instance a 5k, runs up against it pirate, it dies. Only in isolated circumstances is this not the case.

How is that a counter argument to what I have said? It just sounds like a simple explanation of encounters.

As I said in my first post - your not arguing for balance, you are arguing for trade ships to be weaker so that the Pirate has the advantage, which they always do anyway.

I am completely arguing for balance - encounters between the two should not be immensely one-sided so that the pirate has little to no chance of being able to kill the salvager before it docks at a station.
And, in order to achieve balance, the trade ship may need to be weakened.

You and Karst could benefit from reading the same thread we've had for ages instead of making more, wasting everyones time.

Same thread? Wut? This is the only one there's been for a while now.
Though, Karst has been bringing up the problems of trade ships in general on different threads, which is only loosely related to this.

+1

I agree with some of what was said about pirating alone, I am harder to kill in my serenity than i am in a salvager, and it has less regens.

Not sure what you're on when making that argument.
When broken down with numbers, there is irrefutable evidence to show that the Salvager has far greater survivability than the Serenity.

The salvager is not super fast and a good pilot with novas and a snac can tear it up,

Provided two variables are met, that is true:
1. The Salvager pilot decides to face the bomber, rather than running to the nearest station
2. The Salvager pilot isn't competent at all
3. The Bomber is a heavy bomber.
4. The Salvager isn't using Solaris, or chain firing prims.

Provided those are met, your statement may be true. Otherwise, it is not.

yes it may take a while

In accordance with variable 1, that statement stands true. But if the salvager runs? Hah, good luck killing it.

but some of you seem to feel a pirate encounter the pirate should always have the upper hand and should pretty much insta-kill any transport with little or no effort.

That isn't what we're arguing at all. If you actually read across the posts, rather than whining that you're holy collection of transports are at risk, you may see more sense across this argument. Regens need to be taken away from it so that killing it is taken from the realm of near-impossibility and into the realm of possibility. And if you're actually competent you'll be able to fend off the pirate regardless of what regens you have.

If a Salvager is too hard for you to pirate then do not mess with someone flying one.

"I fly an unpiratable ship so that I can power trade in peace!!!!"
Which is exactly the problem. Salvager is just a lazy shortcut to invincibility. Junkers already have impressive diplomacy to ensure that they can survive, but giving them an invincible transport is unecessary.

I feel some of you pirating are getting too lazy, you cannot get along with someone long enough to team up so you have to fly alone i guess. You expect to sit in one spot and have traders fly right up, make a demand and pew pew it is done in seconds.

And I feel like you Junker traders are getting lazy. Expecting to be able to easily powertrade across Sirius in your near-invincible transport and generous diplomacy without ever having to face an encounter in which you may (believe it or not!) actually die.

I used to be able to hold my own in some transports after i invested in armor, now it is not the case since most transports are "easy" targets for the lone pirate in the bomber. Who is going to want to run around and trade much when they know sure death is waiting. This is exactly what cause some people to avoid trade lanes all together because it is not so easy to find escorts any more with such low activity,

Oh please stop being so melodramatic. And transports are not easy targets for bombers anymore. The times have changed. And really, piracy balance is very messed up and in the favour of traders due to stat and equipment changes over the past few updates. That's an issue for another thread so, so I won't bother arguing about it.

but that does not mean transports should be turned into easy kill targets for pirates. My advice stop crying for nerfs, go practice and get better or quit piracy if you cannot handle running like the big dogs.

My point above stands to the first part of your statement.
My advice for you is to try things on both sides of the argument, rather than pointing fingers and saying people are merely whining about a ship. If you really are so bad that you will insist that "The salvager isn't OP because I die in it!!!" then get good. Don't think that just because you have had a bad experience with it, you stand for the whole population of Salvager pilots.

---